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Topic starter
09/09/2018 7:53 am
Okay, here's the deal: there's this stupid argument on Steroids.Reviews where some mods claim D-bol, deca and tren etc convert to and increase Testosterone levels. From my readings I've only seen that EQ converts to test (Big Cat mentioned it here).
So, which AAS can convert and elevate testosterone?
09/09/2018 8:33 am
Here's how ya get 'em: ask for proof. He won't have any, and will go on a lil rant while you sit there laughing.
PS if you want, I can find a deca study in my archives that shows administration decreases test levels. You really shouldn't need it, though, the burden of proof is on him.
"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein
Topic starter
09/09/2018 9:14 am
Here's how ya get 'em: ask for proof. He won't have any, and will go on a lil rant while you sit there laughing.PS if you want, I can find a deca study in my archives that shows administration decreases test levels. You really shouldn't need it, though, the burden of proof is on him.
I already posted a deca study but they just don't get it.
However, I still wonder if there are any other steroids besides boldenone that convert to test. That was news to me when I read it a while back.
09/09/2018 10:08 am
If they present any "proof" about the Dbol and tren converting to test I would be interested in seeing it because I have never heard that before.
09/09/2018 10:47 am
There's no way trenbolone converts to testosterone. Same for nandrolone.
09/09/2018 11:47 am
Dbol cannot convert to testosterone!.. I'll say this though, if boldenone converts to testosterone (I don't know if it does), then dbol would convert to 17-methyl testosterone, not testosterone since dbol is 17-alkylated boldenone
09/09/2018 12:33 pm
About boldenone :
"Boldenone metabolites were identified as monohydroxylated boldenones, oxidized boldenone, and testosterone."
Do we speak about low/anecdotal conversion or pro-hormone action like ?
Topic starter
09/09/2018 1:34 pm
Do we speak about low/anecdotal conversion or pro-hormone action like ? [/B]
I don't know. Big Cat posted this:
quote:
Another option is to use boldenone as a base at 500-800 mg a week, those doses will allow for high normal to slight supraphysiologic levels of testosterone as well.
quote:
On a higher dose EQ cycle you can drop the test. Even 600 mg a week of EQ converts enough boldenone to testosterone to keep you in the high normal range.
09/09/2018 2:25 pm
Would like to see the rational/studies pointing to EQ converting to Test myself.
Topic starter
09/09/2018 3:12 pm
bump for Big Cat if he's around.
09/09/2018 3:45 pm
There are a gazillions of studies on excreted metabolites on pubmed that clearly show that these compounds do not come anywhere close to forming testosterone. Trenbolone doesn't even seem to really change into much of anything, other than the usual changes at the 3 and 17 positions.
The proof is easily found, just go to pubmed and search for your steroid of choice, together with words like "metabolites", "urinary excretion" or "GC/MS". More ofthen than not, they will list the metabolites right there in the abstract so you don't even need to get the study from the library.
With EQ it was very obvious, apart from the referenced lit, just take a look at the blood results of a man on 800 mg of EQ a week and nothing else. His test will still be over the normal range.
I'm sure there are obscure steroid and prohormones that convert to test, but none of the classic AAS except boldenone.
Good things come to those who weight.
The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.
09/09/2018 4:38 pm
1/Testosterone itself is not an usual urinary excreted metabolite, T is generally excreted as androsterone, etiocholanolone, 5 alpha-androstanediol or 5 beta-androstanediol. So even if a synthetic AAS can convert at a low rate to T it will be difficult to put it in evidence by analyzing urinary samples.
2/About Trenbolone :
3/Do you have some reliable datas about boldenone ? I think here we must distinguish between anecdotal conversion to a real rate of transformation in T and a precursor action-like.
09/09/2018 5:10 pm
[B]@BigCat1/Testosterone itself is not an usual urinary excreted metabolite, T is generally excreted as androsterone, etiocholanolone, 5 alpha-androstanediol or 5 beta-androstanediol. So even if a synthetic AAS can convert at a low rate to T it will be difficult to put it in evidence by analyzing urinary samples.
Why ? Just screen urine for androsterone, etiocholanone and Androstanediol. If you don't find them, no test was produced, since that's what test breaks down into.
I don't get the problem, its really that easy
quote:
2/About Trenbolone :
Are you making a point, or do you really expect me to read 20 pages to make a quick reply ?
quote:
3/Do you have some reliable datas about boldenone ? I think here we must distinguish between anecdotal conversion to a real rate of transformation in T and a precursor action-like. [
1)Williams TM, Kind AJ, Hill DW. Drug metabolism: in vitro biotransformation of anabolic steroids in canines. J Vet Pharmacol Ther. 2000 Apr;23(2):57-66.
2) De Brabander HF, Poelmans S, Schilt R, Stephany RW, Le Bizec B, Draisci R, Sterk SS, van Ginkel LA, Courtheyn D, Van Hoof N, Macri A, De Wasch K. Presence and metabolism of the anabolic steroid boldenone in various animal species: a review. Food Addit Contam. 2004 Jun;21(6):515-25.
If you need more, I suggest you look at the blood results of any person using only boldenone and compare their test levels to those of people using any other synthetic steroid, alone.
Good things come to those who weight.
The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.
Topic starter
09/09/2018 5:52 pm
Thanks BC.
09/09/2018 6:45 pm
Why ? Just screen urine for androsterone, etiocholanone and Androstanediol. If you don't find them, no test was produced, since that's what test breaks down into.I don't get the problem, its really that easy
Of course.
1/But these sort of studies are made for drug tests, they want to find some metabolites as reliable markers of the use of AAS. They do not make an inventory of all metabolites present in the sample.
2/In the presence of these metabolites we cannot exclude the endogeneous origin.
Are you making a point, or do you really expect me to read 20 pages to make a quick reply ?
If you do you will see other metabolites than "the usual changes at the 3 and 17 positions."
1)Williams TM, Kind AJ, Hill DW. Drug metabolism: in vitro biotransformation of anabolic steroids in canines. J Vet Pharmacol Ther. 2000 Apr;23(2):57-66.2) De Brabander HF, Poelmans S, Schilt R, Stephany RW, Le Bizec B, Draisci R, Sterk SS, van Ginkel LA, Courtheyn D, Van Hoof N, Macri A, De Wasch K. Presence and metabolism of the anabolic steroid boldenone in various animal species: a review. Food Addit Contam. 2004 Jun;21(6):515-25.
Thanks.
If you need more, I suggest you look at the blood results of any person using only boldenone and compare their test levels to those of people using any other synthetic steroid, alone.
I have only one about boldenone undecylenate and after 9 weeks of veterinary equipoise, his T level was low. I do not say that boldenone doesn't convert to T. I'm pretty sure it does. But the question is the rate of conversion. I have no answer.
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