Recovery gear for swimmer

Re: Recovery gear for swimmer

Posted by: Narko

Hi,

I'm a swimmer, need something to recover faster between the training sessions. Been training hard everyday for 11 years, 25 y/o now. 6'0" and 180 lbs. Hct = 43 and Body fat = 7ish %. My VO2 max was 69 last time measured.

Thinking about EPO, but I want to try my way with something else first. Been thinking about test, but I don't really know what to go with? Any suggestions as for what to look into?

Yep, read RG's post. I'm on a cycle now and is working great. Recovery is unbelievable.

https://www.growxxl.com/steroids/test-and-steroids-for-endurance-athletes

What are your events? If you're 100-200 meters any stroke, then you'll likely get more out of running a bit higher dosages since those events are sub-2mins in length.

However...

It's kinda hard to compare swimming to anything cycling in terms of physiological output. It's not track sprinting (too short) or track endurance (too long). Maybe something like a kilo on the track. Unless it 400 meters or 1600 meters. Rule of thumb, elite swimmers cover 200 meters at 1 min/100m. That's very rough.

For anyone reading who might help this guy, a college swimmer will normally race three to four times per one-day meet. As much as three times that for two-day meets with prelims and finals.

So it's up to Narko -- which btw is a very intriguing handle -- to let us know what events he swims, how often per meet, how many meters/day is he swimming, what are his events.

I'm leaning toward MS on this one -- low dose test, considering the mileage most swimming do -- two-plus hours/daily.

Sorry, I should have stated, my main focus are the longer events 400, 800 and 1500 meters (free style mostly). My best is probably the 800 m, which is just a tad under 8 minutes, so it's not sprinting at all but on the other hand not a marathon.

My workouts are around 1½ hour of swimming on school days, then around 3-4 hours, when I'm off school (which is atleast 3 times a week and of course hollidays and weekends and all that). I do cross training (road cycling) 2-4 hours workouts off season also.

I honestly don't think I can do anything better than I'm doing things right now. I've been training seriously for 11 years, I eat right, sleep right, train right, I have brilliant coaches and training programs and training conditions. I don't think I could up my training volume much more as things are now.

I'm thinking about trying out EPO, but I want to look into something to recover better on first. The drug test system is a joke really, I've only been tested once in my career (won the nationals four times w/o being tested), so I'd like to try something that'll help me off season so I can train really hard for the next 8-9 months and then become "clean" again.

Note, that I do not want to gain weight or muscle mass, really. I'm very much strong enough. It's really my VO2 max and the 'aerobic capabilities' that I want to up the most.

That post from Realgains suggest that I should probably take 100 mg test twice a week. What about Nandrolone or other hormones? Anything that work for endurance athletes like me?

Also, how long does it take to end a cycle and get the natural Testosterone level back up to normal and have balls that function normally??

Thanks for the comments boys!!

Real Gains is the expert on these, but I think he's going to tell you to run 125mg/week of testosterone E or C, breaking up the injections into twice/week. You'll want to get your natural testosterone levels checked before, during and after your cycle. Normal endurance cycle, which sounds like what you'll be looking at, run between 8-12 weeks. Probably best to go on the short end of that scale first run out to check for sides. Likely you won't have any.

Blood tests will tell you if you need to adjust your dosages. If you can't get blood test, it's suggested to run higher, something along the lines of 150mgs/weekly. Also, to keep water weight down, Armidex is recommended. I haven't done this yet, but next cycle I will.

You'll want to stay away from Nandrolone and EQ if you're getting tested. I believe those two are detectable for something like six months.

Post cycle therapy (PCT) should be nearly seamless if you do it right. HCG (not HGH) ideally should be run throughout the cycle. Something like 250-500 ius weekly. Check the RG post to be sure. You can run it every other day (eod) between your last shot and pct. clomid and/or Nolvadex should be run two-three weeks after your last shot of test.

All this is cookbook. Just make sure you have the key elements:
1) Testosteron (C, E, or Sust)
2) Armidex
3) HCG
4) Nolvadex and/or Clomid

Research that stuff. You'll find that to be a common cycle and variances in dosages are mostly personal preferences. Be advised: there's a big dif between body building dosages and endurance dosages.

Good to have you on the board Narko. Firstly, keep using the search bar on this forum - try different search terms. You'll find lots of info. There are years worth of comments.

Would definitely try the low dose test...Test E 70mg E4D would be suitable. Use Test Prop to see a faster effect. This needs to be injected EOD or E3D. Whatever ester you use, schedule your dosing so T levels remain relatively stable. Don't use Arimidex unless you really need to (significant water retention)...if you do, RG suggests 0.25mg EOD.

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You'll want to stay away from Nandrolone and EQ if you're getting tested.

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Nandralone/Deca can be detectable for 18 months+. EQ not so long. You could try that later down the road at low doses with Test. Follow RG's guidelines.

Maybe also try the SERM only cycle. That's tamoxifen citrate 20mg ED or Toremifene Citrate 60mg ED. Clomid is another option at 50mg ED but more side effects are reported with this.

Other options for recovery:

IGF-1 LR3 50mcg 3-4x PW
HGH 1-3iu EOD in the morning on an empty stomach

I've used Test Suspension 25mg. This increases test levels within 1-2 hours. Good for race day. You would experience a drop below normal T a few days later though, unless you are currently on a T cycle.

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I'm thinking about trying out EPO, but I want to look into something to recover better on first.

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EPO will improve your recovery a huge amount. I raised my crit 6% and saw massive gains. Research the forum and internet for several weeks before starting an E cycle. You'll need to buy a Zipocrit to measure your crit unless you can easily get blood tested 2x a week.

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It's really my VO2 max and the 'aerobic capabilities' that I want to up the most.

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EPO will improve your VO2Max. You could easily increase aerobic capacity by 10-20% on a cycle.

Whatever you use, it goes without saying that you should experiment in training first. You can run many of these cycles at the same time once you've tried each individually. Make sure you are completely familiar with correct injection protocol. Let us know what you do.

Okay, thanks for all the advices! I've spend hours and hours on this board reading, believe you me. I've put this cycle of 10 weeks together that I think I want to try:

Weeks 1-10:
50 mg of Testosterone Propionate every 3 days
500 UI of hCG every 5 days

PCT: Clomid, starting at 150 mg/day, then 50 mg less every 10 days.

Does that look ok to you guys? Anything I should do different in your opinions?

I'm gonna try EPO for sure but not right now. This is just so I can cope with a massive ammount of training (with hopefully no injuries, lol) off-season. In season I'd like to try EPO and see how it works for me, but it would be so nice, just to get the extra little percentages from a better (=harder/more trainging hours) preparation period than what I'm used to.

I've been reading about EPO for a long time on this forum (never posted before, though), so I think I know what I'm going to do with that when I get to that.
I just can't afford both test and EPO at the same time, with EPO being the most expensive. And I think test will make my preparations better, while epo will give me the boost when my season starts (around spring 2008).

Also, the way the drugtest us, I have basically no chance to be tested from August to February, so I'd like to be "clean" of test and all that by February, but I think I can easily find the good days to inject epo and slip through.

Posted by: Narko

Okay, thanks for all the advices! I've spend hours and hours on this board reading, believe you me. I've put this cycle of 10 weeks together that I think I want to try:

Weeks 1-10:
50 mg of Testosterone Propionate every 3 days
500 UI of hCG every 5 days

PCT: Clomid, starting at 150 mg/day, then 50 mg less every 10 days.

Does that look ok to you guys? Anything I should do different in your opinions?

I'm gonna try EPO for sure but not right now. This is just so I can cope with a massive ammount of training (with hopefully no injuries, lol) off-season. In season I'd like to try EPO and see how it works for me, but it would be so nice, just to get the extra little percentages from a better (=harder/more trainging hours) preparation period than what I'm used to.

I've been reading about EPO for a long time on this forum (never posted before, though), so I think I know what I'm going to do with that when I get to that.
I just can't afford both test and EPO at the same time, with EPO being the most expensive. And I think test will make my preparations better, while epo will give me the boost when my season starts (around spring 2008).

Also, the way the drugtest us, I have basically no chance to be tested from August to February, so I'd like to be "clean" of test and all that by February, but I think I can easily find the good days to inject epo and slip through.

You'll get a bit of water weight on that dose but since you are a swimmer then weight gain isn't a big deal like it is for cycling and especially running. You are doing 150 a week which is the max dose I recommend for an endurance athlete....one of your events require more muscular power though..like the 400.
IF you start getting bad muscle pumps or cramps from the water retention then jump on arimidex at 1/4 pill every other day first thing in the am on an empty stomach and 30 minutes before eating..

I would get your T and estrogen tested after a month "on".
Your T will be way above high normal on 150mg/week...and you don't want your estrogen above high normal. If estrogen is above high normal then jump on the arimidex.

The Clomid dose is too high. 150 on day one is fine but then you only need 50 a day for 4 weeks. I used to think you needed to do 100 a day for a week but I have changed my mind...that's a lot of Clomid. In fact even 25 a day works.
You might want to trey nolva instead as the emotional sides are WAY rarer. 40mg on day 1 is enough and then 20 a day for 4 weeks.
The HCG....take 250 every 3rd day.....OR>>>you can wait till near the end of the cycle to wake the testes up by doing 500iu's every other day for a week and then 250 iu's every other day for week. This schedule done starting the last couple week of the cycle and before PCT works well.

The epo will do WAY WAY more for you than testosterone but only if your event is VO2 max, which doesn't happen until 3 minutes long or longer. ie: 400 IM...1500 meter freestyle etc etc. A high crit doesn't help anaerobic work capacity a lot so events up to 2 minutes won't be impacted as much by a high crit. For sprints like 50 meter events...it won't do anything.

The 1500 meter freestyle will be most impacted by a high crit as this is a high threshold power event....BUT the VO2 event like the 400IM will be helped A LOT too.

Phelps is doped to the 9's with a high crit FOR SURE Look how he has broken the records and then his own records...huge margins for swimming.

You'll hit 75 for a VO2 max if your crit is 52-55% bro.
It will also push your body very hard and you will retain some of the gain after going off. You might want to do 3 iu's of growth every other day and or testosterone while really pushing hard with a high crit. WELL.....it's too easy to get caught with testosterone "in season" unless you have a lot of experience with it...so the HGH would be ideal(untestable)
IGF-1 would help too and it's not that expensive....but growth increases IGF-1 too.

Good luck

RG Last edited by Realgains on 07-18-2007 at 06:34 PM

Nice suggestions, Realgains! Do you think that HGH would be a better choice for recovery/harder trainging than a testos cycle? I clearly see the benefits over testosterone, both when it comes to detectability, but also I think the stuff it does to the nuts and mood+mental side effects makes me think twice, really.

Also, I'm genetically really susceptible to acne even at 25. Even my dad at 55 gets pimples now and then, but has a full beard so it can't be seen, lol. I can't have that luxury, unfortunately. I hope it wouldn't be too bad on test, but I guess I can live with that side effect.

To add a little more, it's the longer events that counts for me, the 400 isn't that important, I'm more of a long distance guy, although it's no marathon, hehe.
I've had 73 VO2max legit! as my personal best, btw. I'm not far off the elite, but I basically haven't improved my results for 3 years now. I still do the times I did when I was 22. Usually, my tests are between 68 and 71 VO2 max.
Crit in the low 50's would be so great. I'd really love to try that out.

I can find HGH Jintropin at $500 for 10x10 UI vials, btw... At 3UI e3d, that's something I think I could definitely afford. I thought it was much more expensive.

Posted by: Narko

Nice suggestions, Realgains! Do you think that HGH would be a better choice for recovery/harder trainging than a testos cycle? I clearly see the benefits over testosterone, both when it comes to detectability, but also I think the stuff it does to the nuts and mood+mental side effects makes me think twice, really.

Also, I'm genetically really susceptible to acne even at 25. Even my dad at 55 gets pimples now and then, but has a full beard so it can't be seen, lol. I can't have that luxury, unfortunately. I hope it wouldn't be too bad on test, but I guess I can live with that side effect.

To add a little more, it's the longer events that counts for me, the 400 isn't that important, I'm more of a long distance guy, although it's no marathon, hehe.
I've had 73 VO2max legit! as my personal best, btw. I'm not far off the elite, but I basically haven't improved my results for 3 years now. I still do the times I did when I was 22. Usually, my tests are between 68 and 71 VO2 max.
Crit in the low 50's would be so great. I'd really love to try that out.

I can find HGH Jintropin at $500 for 10x10 UI vials, btw... At 3UI e3d, that's something I think I could definitely afford. I thought it was much more expensive.

Test is better for recovery reasons bro. But test and HGH would be great. You won't get too much acne at that dose of test.

If you are going to do epo...then get to 55% IMHO..for big races.

RG

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I can find HGH Jintropin at $500 for 10x10 UI vials, btw... At 3UI e3d, that's something I think I could definitely afford. I thought it was much more expensive.

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Dude there is NO WAY you need to spend that much for 100IU HGH. You can get it at $2-3 per IU. It might be generic, but if the source is good, quality will be equal. You could even do a season's worth of EPO for $500. If you go for HGH, buy a sample first...in the long run, you'd want more than 100IU especially at 3IU EOD. Results are better if you stay on longer.

Feedback on recovery is generally better for test than HGH. With HGH though, you'll get other benefits such as better skin and less risk of tendon injury.

Regarding testing, if it's in competition only, you can schedule with prop and/or susp to avoid detection. That's a great aerobic capacity btw...I bet you'll hit 80+ with a 10% HCT rise.

Thanks, KingMassimo! I don't know if I'm allowed to ask questions like this on this forum, but could I have you PM me or something a site that is like "trusted" by the forum that sells E/HGH/test, etc. I've visited eposinos site, seems great and I hear great things about him on the forum, but he's nowhere near the prices you speak of!

I think I've decided not to go with test, but just get HGH and do it, then get EPO around December and start doing it pre-season to get used to it and get used to it so I can (hopefully) rock in-season. I think I'd be a pretty mean respirating maching with HCT in the low/mid 50's. Makes me all warm and fuzzy, just thinking about having 80 VO2max! That is just insane, I know a couple of guys like that and they just kill me, I have no chance of keeping up with them, except for the rare occasions of them having a bad day and me having a great one.
I can't say if they are clean or not, but I've shared room with some of them during training camps and I have seen nothing suspicious.
Also the benefit of stronger joints and tendons is appeGrowXXLGearg, since this is a sport with a relatively high amount of injuries like that.

Right now, I don't really care about my the time I do at training, I just need to get my body through the daily training, lol. It's so hard, hehe, but it would be nice if I could up the mileage a little anyway. Training volume is key, but you need to recover from training aswell, so more training as it is now would just be folly.

KingMassimo, I definitely don't want to do in-competition "boosts" of test, (I'm thinking Floyd Landis here). That is the period of time where I have the most chance of being tested unfortunately (for me).

I believe the school of thought is, you'll get more out of test cycle alone than an HGH cycle alone.

Anyone have the DP Arimidex small blue tab. Afraid to try to break into quarters. Would taking a tab a week be a feasible option??? Maybe RG could chime in. Thanks all.
BKK

Re: 1/4 tab of Arimidex I use a pill spliter, it cost two bucks (w. free shipping).

Posted by: BKK117

Anyone have the DP Arimidex small blue tab. Afraid to try to break into quarters. Would taking a tab a week be a feasible option??? Maybe RG could chime in. Thanks all.
BKK