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Topic starter
20/12/2019 10:45 am
Holy crap.....I just went through the study linked below. The results of this study are shocking to say the least.
Total T went up by over 250% and free T went up by over 600% in these young men! This makes this nutritional supp better than either SERMS(selective estrogen receptor modulators) like Nolvadex or aromatase inhibitors such as Arimidex.
I am quite suspicious though...as I am very skeptical of supps that say they increase T. I hope I am wrong with my suspicions.
HOW IT WORKS
It works like an aromatase inhibitor... and in fact it is one according to this study! You see estrogen and especially E2 is suppressive at the hypothalamus. That means if estrogen is high then less gonadotropin releasing hormone is released from the hypothalamus>>>causing less stimulation of the pituitary to release the gonsdotropins LH and follical stimulating hormone>>>>less of these means less stimulation of the testes to make T.
This supp acts to inhibit the aromatization of Testosterone to estrogen just like a pure aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex!
ALSO...this stuff reduced SHBG(steroid hormone binding globulin), which is a protein that binds with our T making it ineffective, by 15%. That si good news because this means that more of that high total T will be FREE (free T) which can be used by the body!
ALSO...there was an average of 3.5% fat mass loss.
BAD NEWS?
Well, like SERMS and aromatase inhibitors this supp reduces IGF-1.
In this study the reduction was by 45% which they did not consider significant. Well, I think it is but yet the LARGE increase in total and free T should more than offset this.
Now this is the only study done on the stuff but it appears to be legit. I hope the study was not flawed in any way but it doesn't appear to be.
Lets do our own studies.....
Get a baseline T done and then do this supp for 2-3 weeks and re-check T and then report back to the board.
You can get your T tested without a docs order from this company in the USA
http://www.healthcheckusa.com/
Here is the study!
http://gasparinutrition.com/files/p...edexArticle.pdf
NOTE: If you do get a T above high normal with this supp and you are tested for total T then you will be busted....and the only way you will be able to reverse the outcome is if you have the sample taken for mass spectrometry ..which will be conclusive for NO exogenous T use.
SUSPICIOUS
It just doesn't ring clear with me guys.....the T increases were bloody huge. I wonder if this guy(doc) is "in bed" with Gaspari....as Gaspari is the only maker of this stuff.
Someone of importance, like a doctor at a university, could lie about results in an official looking study, and then collect BIG TIME on the profits from the sale of the product he so called "studied". Without this study Novedex XT is NOTHING. Novedex XT is now selling at an alarming rate!!! HUGE money!
Damn I would like to see another study on this stuff and I can't believe one has not been done yet.
How in the hell can this stuff work way better than Arimidex.
Note: 58% increase in T on 1 full mg of Arimidex, which is pretty strong stuff re: aromatase inhibition. It dropped IGF-1 by 18%.
http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexB...estosterone.htm
Novedex XT actually caused increases in estrogen(although small) along with it's large increase in T which suggests, as the study says, that Novedex XT only partially inhibits the conversion of T to e.....
SO>>>how the heck does it raise T so high??
AND.....since estrogen is not hammered down on Novedex XT good cholesterol(hdl) in the study, stayed good....unlike what can happen with Arimidex and other such drugs(not SERMS which are estrogen blockers and not estrogen inhibitors/aromatase inhibitor).
Lets do the studies ourselves!!! But guys...you MUST do a baseline T first.
Cheers
RG
20/12/2019 11:13 am
i used hyperdrol x2 for 4 weeks durin and after pct not sure weather it worked or not seemed to recover quite well though may run it again to see it is a so called naturual product and not a pro -hormone should be similar to the product you descrie RG ?
20/12/2019 11:43 am
Wow...I can't believe this...
What about WADA? Are they testing this stuff?
Anyone have tried Novedex XT yet?
20/12/2019 12:08 pm
I've used it and thought it was kick ass. I just took the RG challenge and ordered a blood test...I'll do it again, but this time I'll have the test numbers..
20/12/2019 12:27 pm
Did you use it for recovery test levels ? what dosage? any sides? will this cause estrogen levels to drop significantly like Arimidex?
RG- Any thoughts on taking IGF-1 while on Novedex to counteract the drop in natural IGF?
Topic starter
20/12/2019 12:55 pm
Did you use it for recovery test levels ? what dosage? any sides? will this cause estrogen levels to drop significantly like Arimidex?RG- Any thoughts on taking IGF-1 while on Novedex to counteract the drop in natural IGF?
Great idea!
RG
Topic starter
20/12/2019 1:15 pm
I WANT TESTS! CALLING ALL READERS!
I am going to start as soon as this SERM clears so I'll have to wait at least two weeks for the SERM to clear...(been on a week now). I already have a baseline T though.
If this stuff even increases my T by 50-75% I will shit.
Be sure to get a baseline T done before starting.
Get T tested here without a docs script.
http://www.healthcheckusa.com/
http://www.healthcheckusa.com/lab_tests/Me n's_Health/Testosterone
It's worth the money because if this stuff doesn't work then you'll be spending a lot more on it over the months.
NOTE: The study ran about 72mg of the stuff.....the product recommendation from the manufacturer is to start with 2 and perhaps go up to 4 a day.....that's 120 to 240mg a day. I think that is a ploy to make more money.(60mg per capsule)
Do the dose that the study used....maybe 1.5 capsules or 90mg.
RG
20/12/2019 1:45 pm
Baseline T is getting tested this week hopefully. I'm sure it will be very low...heh. Still not sure weather to go with a SERM, low dose T, or a roid like EQ. If Novedex works well than I'll consider it over a SERM.
20/12/2019 2:11 pm
THis stuff is also more commonly known as 6-OXO, Pat Arnold did extensive research into it and it has been around for some time. Gaspari Nutrition simply uses a less common name for its label to try to mystify the ingredients and peraps discourage the laternative sources of it which may be cheaper. 1fast used to sell it. Do a search for 6-OXO and you will find a lot of info. The interesting thing is that this was also reported in J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2007 Oct 19 by almost the same authors in a somewhat different order attributed to the same organization at Baylor University. The results were obviously the same since it was the same group and data, just the article name was different since it did not push Gaspari. There are many anecdotal reports of greater of lessor results but it appears to be worth investigating here if folks are willing. THe interesting thing reported is the increase in test and essentially stable e2. also note the very large increase in dht for those concerned with MPB.
jb
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J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2007 Oct 19;4:13. Links
Effects of eight weeks of an alleged aromatase inhibiting nutritional supplement 6-OXO (androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione) on serum hormone profiles and clinical safety markers in resistance-trained, eugonadal males.Rohle D, Wilborn C, Taylor L, Mulligan C, Kreider R, Willoughby D.
Department of Health, Human Performance, and Recreation, Baylor University, Box 97313, Waco, TX 76798, USA. [email protected].
ABSTRACT: The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 6-OXO, a purported nutritional aromatase inhibitor, in a dose dependent manner on body composition, serum hormone levels, and clinical safety markers in resistance trained males. Sixteen males were supplemented with either 300 mg or 600 mg of 6-OXO in a double-blind manner for eight weeks. Blood and urine samples were obtained at weeks 0, 1, 3, 8, and 11 (after a 3-week washout period). Blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), estradiol, estriol, estrone, SHBG, leutinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), growth hormone (GH), cortisol, FT/estradiol (T/E). Blood and urine were also analyzed for clinical chemistry markers. Data were analyzed with two-way MANOVA. For all of the serum hormones, there were no significant differences between groups (p > 0.05). Compared to baseline, free testosterone underwent overall increases of 90% for 300 mg 6-OXO and 84% for 600 mg, respectively (p < 0.05). DHT underwent significant overall increases (p < 0.05) of 192% and 265% with 300 mg and 600 mg, respectively. T/E increased 53% and 67% for 300 mg and 600 mg 6-OXO, respectively. For estrone, 300 mg produced an overall increase of 22%, whereas 600 mg caused a 52% increase (p < 0.05). Body composition did not change with supplementation (p > 0.05) and clinical safety markers were not adversely affected with ingestion of either supplement dose (p > 0.05). While neither of the 6-OXO dosages appears to have any negative effects on clinical chemistry markers, supplementation at a daily dosage of 300 mg and 600 mg for eight weeks did not completely inhibit aromatase activity, yet significantly increased FT, DHT, and T/E.
Topic starter
20/12/2019 2:35 pm
JB...the stuff I am reading so far on the forums suggest that these two supps are not the same thing?? I don't know for sure because I just started to research them...and I appreciate your knowledge on this issue.
Here's a thread supporting them as different
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=962293
Then this thread with guys calling Gaspari a snake oil saleman!
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...lient=firefox-a
...and this from that same thread further down...
"I actually emailed the Baylor University prof who did the research study for 6-OXO (Darryn S. Willoughby, Ph.D., FACSM, FISSN, CSCS, CNC
Associate Professor of Exercise/Nutritional Biochemistry and Molecular
Physiology). Nice guy. Here's a cut and paste from one of his emails for what it's worth:
Yes, we had decent findings. However, we did another study with the
exact same experimental design and gave Gaspari's Novedex XT for 8
weeks. There was an average increase in total testosterone of 300% and
for free testosterone 600%, with no changes in estrogen. Although, the
6-OXO results were good, there were not near as good as Novedex."
RG
Topic starter
20/12/2019 3:01 pm
Finding stuff of interest...
read this thread!
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...ghlight=novedex
and this thread...
20/12/2019 3:32 pm
Nice find...get that mattyd on LOl!!! How I wish I was German...
20/12/2019 4:01 pm
Nice find...get that mattyd on LOl!!! How I wish I was German...
Are u crazy? All those 6' chicks with incredible bods;leave it to us southern hemisphere men; we know how to handle them.M/track
20/12/2019 4:24 pm
it is just strange that the ingredient they list is almost identical to the 6 oxo and if you seacrh for the ingredient you find zippo hits in medline and only gaspari nutrition in google. i am still not convinced that there is a difference.
jb
20/12/2019 4:41 pm
This sounds interesting. Do you guys have any idea how different anti-doping authorities threat this?