Muscle Growth AND lean during a cycle?

The main reason I posted this is because I'm afraid my pre-contest diet/cycle might not cut me up enough. So I'm looking for some protein/calorie/fat/carb ratios from people who HAVE done shows or know how to train for them. I mean, c'mon, I'm 12 months out which gives me some good time to work with and I want to make the most of the time. And for the record, I've never done a show. This time I think I have a good shot at being where I need too, especially with some good constructive advice. I don't talk cycles or training to people at my gym.

Diet wise i would shoot for around 400-450 grams of protein a day. This is just my opinion but too many guys eat too much protein and your body cannot digest that much. Dorian only ate around 1 1/3-1 1/2 grams per pound and Jay Cutler even goes below 1 gram per pound when dieting........plus i'm saying this on personal experience, when dieting the best results i have seen in muscle kept and fat loss occured when my protein was about 1.3 grams per pound. Fat keep as low as possible but make sure you get enough. Personally even dieting i eat 3 egg yolks for breakfast along with 6 egg whites. Flax seed oil is also a great choice when dieting to make sure you get your essential fatty acids. I include it on my lower carb days, 1 teaspoon on my low days and 2 on my lowest. If you are used to eating steak/Veal or other meat sources with some fat in them then stick to that. Carbs is where the tricks lie. You have to learn to manipulate them for your own body. The best thing i have used is a 3 day cycle. For example (this was a fair way into the diet so my carbs were low anyway), 260 grams Day 1, 100 grams Day 2, 50 grams Day 3. Obviously for a guy your size you can start much higher, maybe 500 Day 1, 250 Day 2, 150 Day 3. This will work quite well, next time i diet i will use a very similar plan with high carb levels than i used this time, as i will use the plan from the start. As for Carb and Protein sources i shouldn't need to go into that. Everyone has their own preferences so stick with what works for you and what you know. Not everyone likes chicken and brown rice. I am so fucking sick of tuna right now but i will eat it once a day come offseason, probably with some sauces on it from now on. Just remember to count all calories, especially protein amounts from Carb sources. Not too many people do that, but i have gotten up to 100 grams of protein a day before from the carb sources i was eating. 3 more things. I ate vegtables this time around and it made a HUGE difference, especially when you get to low carb days and normally all i was eating was chicken in a meal. Eating chicken with Brocalli and Califlower made it much easier. You can eat a lot for the carbs you get out of them as well. I also ate some carrots, make sure you count the carbs in vegatables however. Supplements. I had a lot of Amino acids this time around (on top of my regular vitamins which i always take a lot of). They made a difference, when you diet you are restricting your body of a lot of nutrients and these help you 'cover the bases' so to speak. Cheat meals. Never used them like i did this time and it made a great difference in keeping my metabilism going strong. At your stage of 12 months out, around once a week on high carb days would be great. Personally i have found doing them on my 5th meal of the day (out of 6), and eating food my body digests well (a Burger and fries with as much Ice-Cream and little chocolates i can eat) and then skipping the 6th meal so it all digests properly makes a huge difference to me. Just don't go overboard, keep it to that meal, and only do it when neccessary, not because of a weak mind. Well enough shit for now, sitting at home on a Saturday night with 1 week to the comp. doesn't leave you much else to do :-).

Great advice Just a Pilgrim!! Now as far as the cycle goes - I wouldn't have gone on a bulker at 19% BF - studies show that the higher the fat when you bulk the weight gained is a greater part fat than muscle. A lean person - their body gains a greater % of fat to muscle. Now what you can do here - get some Armidex/Liquidex ASAP. 9lbs in one week is alot of bloat which shows you don't handle test and other aromatisables that well. You will gain water, but also estrogen fat. Take 0.5mg Arimidex EOD with 20mg Nolvadex EOD and the water will come off in a few days and you will not gain estrogen fat. Keep your diet very clean - 300 calories over maintance, that way you will gain only muscle. You will have a decreased rate of muscle gain as opposed to eatinh like crazy but you will lower your BF % to around 15% I would think by putting muscle only. The cutting cycle - I would use test again 500mg, 400 Eq and Anavar. Again 0.5mg ARimidex is ESSENTIAL! The last 3 weeks before the show add winstrol at 50mg a day, or much better some Halotestin for 3 weeks.

good info pilgram..well said

Hey Great Info all, and thanks for the detailed post Pilgrim. It helps with motivation as well. I was thinking that I was too damn fat to go on a bulk plan but I had this test-E on hand and figured I'd throw it in. I have plenty of Nolvadex and 1MG Arimidex tabs to help me with the water and estrogen. I'm going to clean up my diet now and see if I can still gain some size with protein kept high. I had no idea some of the pros cut their protein down like that. All I have ever heard for 12 years is 2 grams per lb of weight and that gets sick even at my lean bodyweight which is probably around 240lbs.

Originally posted by Raphael Argus Hey Great Info all, and thanks for the detailed post Pilgrim. It helps with motivation as well. I was thinking that I was too damn fat to go on a bulk plan but I had this test-E on hand and figured I'd throw it in. I have plenty of Nolvadex and 1MG Arimidex tabs to help me with the water and estrogen. I'm going to clean up my diet now and see if I can still gain some size with protein kept high. I had no idea some of the pros cut their protein down like that. All I have ever heard for 12 years is 2 grams per lb of weight and that gets sick even at my lean bodyweight which is probably around 240lbs. This is just my opinion again but i wouldn't add in an anti-E until two weeks out from the show. Estrogen is a part of growth as well, restricting it will restrict your gains. I've just added in Nolva, proviron last week, and arimidex this morning and i hardened up considerably in the past few days just from the first two mentioned. If you get gyno it's a different story but if you are dieting and using test, worry about the water held just before showtime, not 12 months out. Durabolin makes a good point about fat to muscle ratios. I would start dieting NOW, use off cycle times to take a break from dieting. Getting into contest condition is probably the hardest thing you will ever do, the closer you are 12 weeks out the better. As for muscle gains AND fat loss, you can gain muscle while dieting (i.e. on restricted calories). My BW has only dropped about 4-5 pounds in the past 5-6 weeks but my condition has improved considerably. I must be gaining muscle at the same time. Your body functions so much better when dieting that this can happen. As for protein amounts, yep too much bloats you. Last year i was shooting for 350 grams when i was just above 200 pounds and it didn't digest well. Don't believe the supplement companies hype, it's just there to sell more protein. 1.5 grams per pound should be a maximum level, i've read so many pro's and others say 1-1.5 grams per pound is right i just ignore most supplement companies crap now. Even Dennis James came out a few years ago saying he was shooting for 500 grams a day and it was bloating him too much pre-contest, and that 350 was going to be his maximum from now on. What's that for him, 1 1/4 per pound? That's all you need.

I agree Pilgrim, as you will want to be 4% BF on stage or at most 6% you really want to be about 12% BF at most 15% when you start pre-contest dieting. That's still alot to lose and it gets hard below 8%

Lean Bulking for me = 7-800 grams of protein a day from lean sources (1% milk 100 gram combo protein shakes of whey and micellar casein with olive oil) I am 3 bills at 5'9"12-14 % 8 or more meals a day feeding the machine 0 simple sugars other than dextrose pre/post workout low-moderate complex carbs and moderate essential fats and limit the processed foods. Do light cardio 3 times a week on off days. I train EOD very very hard high intensity and brief so physical activity is limited so I do aerobics on days off normally 4 days. The more you gently take off now the less catabolism you will encounter in the future months ahead. MG Diet 4 am 60 gram protein shake 1 % Milk 30 grams Designey Whey 30 grams Miscellar casein 6:30 am 1/2 to 3/4 lb 93% lean ground beef with salsa Hash browns cooked in olive oil Vitamins minerals Coffee 9am 100 gram protein shake with 2 tspoons olive oil Large roast beef sandwhich Deli meat 11:30 am 3–4 chicken breasts 2 baked potatos large salad olive oil dressing 2 pm 100 gram protein shake with olive oil roast beef sandwhich 4 pm prework out shake 30grams whey 30 grams dextrose 30 grams Malto dextran 6 pm post work out shake 60-80 grams whey hydro/ion isolate combo 30 grams dextrose 50 grams malto dextran glutamine creatine vitamins minerals fish oil 7:30 pm 100 grams of cottage cheese 1 % baked potato 9 PM large steak 1/2 Baked Potato large salad 11 pm 100 gram protein shake. This is an average of 800 grams a day. All powders are ordered from www.proteincustomizer.com and www.dpsnutirtion.com you can also try Clen T3 and ephedrine but I don't personally like anything but clen and very low dose T3 as ephedrine kills me prostrate. Good Luck 😎 😎 😎

Hey, nice posts. This is some really helpful information for me. I'm cleaning up my diet now. MassiveGmax meal plan is pretty similar to what I take in on an average day, (bulking) Maybe I'll look into the T3 as well a few months out from contest. I have a ton on hand but never tried it. Heard a few horror stories of it eating muscle tissue if you don't consume insane protein amounts. I actually think I'll notice a big difference in appearance by just slashing some of my Saturated Fats. I was thinking if I wait too long to start cleaning up I'd blow the show. And I agree, Pilgrim, I think I'll hold off on the Anti-e's for now. I'm not afraid of the water bloat it's the actual fat that concerns me. A couple questions, I'm going to really taper down my dairy (milk) intake, but I still eat a lot of beef. Should I consider replacing beef with chicken/turkey/egss, or am I still in the safe zone for the next couple months? Also, would throwing some Insulin in 3-4 days a week post workout benefit me if my diet is cleaner, or will it just make me hold on fat? Again, thanks for all the info. I'm getting a digital camera soon so I can post some pics and get better feedback.

RA:Maybe I'll look into the T3 as well a few months out from contest. I have a ton on hand but never tried it. Heard a few horror stories of it eating muscle tissue if you don't consume insane protein amounts.:RA MG:Try low dose T3, with clen and you'll see a lot more fat loss. I am talking 25 mcgs and 40-60 mcgs on the clen. Liquid Research has an excellent Liquid Clen at 125 mcg/ml for research only of course.:MG RA:I actually think I'll notice a big difference in appearance by just slashing some of my Saturated Fats. I was thinking if I wait too long to start cleaning up I'd blow the show.:RA MG: good plan.MG RA:A couple questions, I'm going to really taper down my dairy (milk) intake, but I still eat a lot of beef. Should I consider replacing beef with chicken/turkey/egss, or am I still in the safe zone for the next couple months?:RA MG:Milk and cheeses are not bad right now unless you are eating the whole milk/cheee products. 1% is ok in my opinion. You can stay lean and or lose fat by eating lean ground beef and steak and get the added benefit of the iron b-12 and creatine in the meat for mass. You'll have plenty of time for chicken fish turkey egg whites...blahhhhhhhh.:MG RA:Also, would throwing some Insulin in 3-4 days a week post workout benefit me if my diet is cleaner, or will it just make me hold on fat?:RA MG:Insulin in my opinion sabotages the fat burning process and adds fat even for some of the most careful fellas. I still use it though..but I only use it when bulking to add extreme mass, as it helps promote intramuscular fat gains as well.:MG MG:Good luck and watch the fat melt off.... 😎 😎

Awesome Massivegmax, I think I'll take all your advice. Didn't know liquid Clen even existed, I'll be sure to check into that. I've always wanted to try the T3 so I'm going to do it closer to contest date. I think I'll keep the red meat for 3-4 more months and slowly taper it off. I want to rock this show BAD! And I have been drinking 2% or whole milk, I'm knocking it down to 1% and cutting it out entirely two months pre-contest. Nervous as hell, but if I get this diet down I'm sure I can be where I want too.