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Topic starter 25/11/2018 6:13 pm
40 yo. Seems to me this is a bit old for my age. its strange, I am usually one of the strogenst people in any gym I walk into and I have an unusually high sex drive. I have found posts where much younger men have been tested lower but I'm not sure what the circumstances are. Oh well, good reason to start some self administered HRT.
25/11/2018 6:52 pm
Just thought this would help you. By the way, did you have SHBG levels checked?
Because of a concomitant increase in the level of SHBG with aging, levels of FT decrease by an even greater amount, so that an 80-year-old old man will have a FT level that is one-half to one-third that of a 20-year-old. This decrease in testosterone, known as “andropause,” is the purported male analog to menopause. The origins of andropause are multifactorial: the ability of the testes to produce Testosterone diminishes over time, as does the ability of the pituitary gland to respond to lower testosterone levels by producing higher levels of LH and FSH. These changes may result in overt symptoms of hypogonadism, although it is often difficult to distinguish between changes of “normal aging,” and pathologic changes, in contrast to menopause in which hormonal decreases are much more precipitous (Blum & Harris 2003).
Blum J, Harris RH. Diagnosis and treatment of hypogonadism with emphasis on erectile dysfunction and osteoporosis. Primary Care Case Reviews. 2003;6(3):97-109.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
Topic starter 26/11/2018 5:58 am
no, but thanks for the suggestion. I think what I am going to do is call the med center and speak to a PA I know, ask him to pull my file and talk to me about the results. hopefully he will want to run some more tests. this situation is truely disappointing to me.
26/11/2018 6:33 am
Awesome!! Ever since I realized I am not imortal this subjest (which I consider to be one of the worst yet un talked about sides of aas use) has become of great interest to me. Great summary Quijr, I think this info will be of great use to many!
The only other things I will include in my regement are, Nolvadex 20mg PD throughout a cycle and a green tea suppliment. I always take one anyway but I have rad a study that suggests it too will help lower LDL
!!!...Not...! immortal..!!?
Topic starter 26/11/2018 7:06 am
Yes, not imortal. Its a realization that I came to fairly recently. I had (still have sometimes) a tendancy to take part in some activities that are not known contributing to living a very long time. I thin k the birth of my daughter made me realize that I'd like to sticj around here as long as possible. This lead me to examine everything I do a bit more closely.............In fact I may even have to stop roadracing motorcycles :-(. If you can't go full out then don't go out
26/11/2018 8:06 am
I beg your pardon Bilter, but for a second I thought you said that your physician was going to use TestosteroneSuspension in your HRT. Did you edit your post ?
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
Topic starter 26/11/2018 8:53 am
I did, misunderstanding on my part. That shocked me too ;-). I think it'll be either test e or cyp. he did not specify. it was a choice between that, a patch or a cream. We are going with the injection.
26/11/2018 9:25 am
I did, misunderstanding on my part. That shocked me too ;-).
Indeed !
I think it'll be either test E or cyp. He did not specify. It was a choice between that, a patch or a cream. We are going with the injection.
test enanthate (human grade) is not available in my country, it has to be imported under a medical prescription and it's more expensive than Testosterone Cypionate that can be obtained in a drugstore near you. By the way, is Test Enanthate sold in your country?
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
Topic starter 26/11/2018 10:21 am
Indeed !Test Enanthate (human grade) is not available in my country, it has to be imported under a medical prescription and it's more expensive than Testosterone Cypionate that can be obtained in a drugstore near you. By the way, is Test Enanthate sold in your country?
I am not sure about the test E. I'll know more when I pick up my script this week. Have to go to the Doc office for injection. I really hope this hels with the way I feel (lathargic. lazy, not sleeping well etc) Sex drive is OK (this baffles me). Funny, I've been struggling with this for about 4 years. I have been prescribes zoloft and another antidepressant that I don't remember (celexa I think). It was my idea (demand really) that they test my test levels. Glad did now. Our Dr seem to anxious to diagnose depression and prescrive antiD's without digging for the real cause. guijr, please see my other posts on health & wellness board. Hate to be running 2 threads on pretty much the same issue but appriciate your input on the subject.
26/11/2018 10:58 am
I am not sure about the test E. I'll know more when I pick up my script this week. Have to go to the Doc office for injection.
I see, but I was just wondering if you confirmed your testosterone levels (and other several hormones as well) before starting your treatment based in what is written below:
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The measurement of low morning testosterone levels has to be done via laboratory confirmation on two different occasions. Thus, in all men, it is best to confirm a low testosterone level from an afternoon blood draw using a value obtained from an early morning blood sample. In addition, because of the week-to-week variability in testosterone levels (8,14), low serum testosterone levels should be confirmed at least once before making the diagnosis of hypogonadism (Darby & Anawalt 2005).
Regardless of the test used to measure for testosterone deficiency, an abnormal (low) result should be confirmed by a second morning serum sample (Blum & Harris 2003).
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LH and FSH levels should also be measured in men with low serum testosterone levels because gonadotropin levels differentiate between primary and secondary hypogonadism. Serum LH levels provide a better marker for low testosterone secretion than serum FSH levels, but LH levels fluctuate signifitantcantly throughout the day. Reproducibly elevated LH levels confirm primary hypogonadism even when serum testosterone levels are low-normal, and elevated FSH levels are useful to verify primary hypogonadism (Darby & Anawalt 2005).
If testosterone is below or at the lower limit of the accepted normal values, it is prudent to confirm the results with a second determination with assessment of LH, folliclestimulating hormone (FSH) and prolactin. In the younger male low testosterone levels (less than 12 nmol./l. or 350 ng./dl.) and chronically elevated gonadotropins make a clear diagnosis of primary hypogonadism or testicular failure. In an older man the diagnostic lines are not as clearly defined and additional information may be needed. Thus, in these men as well as in the obese SHBG determination may be useful in establishing the true clinical significance of testosterone measurements. Although secondary (hypogonadotropic) hypogonadism is usually also treated with androgen supplementation, more thorough endocrinological assessment is recommended. A correctable cause or a different herapeutic approach may be more appropriate than simple androgen administration (Morales et al. 2000).
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The failure of a reciprocal increase in FSH and LH when testosterone levels are low is indicative of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism and usually requires further evaluation to rule out pituitary pathology (Blum & Harris 2003).
In older men with clear hypogonadism (testosterone less than 7.0 nm/L; 202 ng/dl) laboratory and diagnostic evaluations should be similar to those performed for younger men. In older men with borderline testosterone levels (7.0–10.5 nm/L or 202–302 ng/dl), a normal physical examination, and no history to suggest pituitary disease, it may be justified to limit subsequent testing to prolactin and thyroid-stimulating hormone levels and not obtain gonadotropin levels. This is based on expert opinion that gonadotropin levels rarely help with the diagnosis of testosterone deficiency in many older males, because most often these levels are in the normal range (7). This opinion is supported by the fact that significant pituitary tumors are rare in older men. Moreover, in older men, hypothalamic function and thus pituitary function decrease, and it is not uncommon to see primary testicular failure with normal gonadotropin levels (Blum & Harris 2003).
If an older man is found to be clearly hypogonadal (total testosterone level below 200 ng/dl), additional laboratory tests, including thyroid-stimulating hormone (to assess hypothyroidism), gonadotropin levels, and prolactin (to rule out possibility of a pituitary tumor), should be conducted to try to determine the etiology of the testosterone deficiency. Low gonadotropin (eg, luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone) levels indicate central hypogonadism. In the absence of clear hypogonadism, however, gonadotropin assays are rarely helpful in older men because values usually fall within the normal range (1,11) (Tenover 2003).
References:
Blum J, Harris H. Diagnosis and treatment of hypogonadism with emphasis on erectile dysfunction and osteoporosis. Primary Care Case Reviews. 2003;6(3):97-109.
Darby E, Anawalt BD. Male hypogonadism : an update on diagnosis and treatment. Treat Endocrinol. 2005;4(5):293-309.
Morales A, Heaton JP, Carson CC 3rd. Andropause: a misnomer for a true clinical entity. J Urol. 2000;163(3):705-12.
Tenover JS. Declining testicular function in aging men. Int J Impot Res. 2003;15 Suppl 4:S3-8.
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I really hope this hels with the way I feel (lathargic, lazy, not sleeping well etc). Funny, I've been struggling with this for about 4 years. I have been prescribes zoloft and another antidepressant that I don't remember (celexa I think).
As we know, there is a link between low test levels and depression as follows:
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Shores MM, Moceri VM, Sloan KL, Matsumoto AM, Kivlahan DR. Low testosterone levels predict incident depressive illness in older men: effects of age and medical morbidity. J Clin Psychiatry. 2005;66(1):7-14.
ABSTRACT
OBJECTIVE: Prior studies found that chronic low testosterone levels are associated with an increased risk of depression. We investigated whether low testosterone levels in older men predict depressive illness over 2 years, while controlling for age and medical morbidity. METHOD: Participants were 748 men, aged 50 years or older, without prior ICD-9-diagnosed depressive illness, with a testosterone level obtained between 1995 and 1997. Measures were age, mean total testosterone levels (low: < or = 2.5 ng/mL), medical morbidity, and incidence and time to depressive illness. RESULTS: Men with low testosterone levels had a greater 2-year incidence of depressive illness (18.5% vs. 10.4%, df = 1, p = .006) and a shorter time to onset of depressive illness (log-rank chi(2) = 8.1, df = 1, p = .004). The unadjusted hazard ratio (HR) for depressive illness in men with low testosterone levels was 1.9 (95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.2 to 3.0, p = .005). After adjustment for age and medical morbidity, men with low testosterone levels continued to have a shorter time to depressive illness (adjusted HR = 2.1; 95% CI = 1.3 to 3.2, p = .002). Due to a significant interaction between age and medical morbidity, we conducted stratified Cox regression analyses and found that low testosterone levels and high medical morbidity or an age of 50 to 65 years were associated with increased depressive illness (p = .002). CONCLUSION: Low testosterone levels are associated with an earlier onset and greater incidence of depressive illness. Men with low testosterone levels who had high medical morbidity or were aged 50 to 65 years had an increased risk for depressive illness. Further prospective studies are needed to examine the role of testosterone in depressive illness in older men.
guijr, please see my other posts on health & wellness board. Hate to be running 2 threads on pretty much the same issue but appriciate your input on the subject.
So why the hell did you start the same topic in two different places ? It's my pleasure.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
Topic starter 26/11/2018 11:48 am
I see, but I was just wondering if you confirmed your testosterone levels (and other several hormones as well) before starting your treatment based in what is written below:
I did ask about running additional tests to measure LH, FSH & SHBG but my Dr was not really receptive to the idea (damn HMO's). His method is basically to go by emperical data. If I start to feel better with this treatment he feels he has made the rigt call. After reading the abstracts you provided I would like to know the cause it test levels truely are low.
So why the hell did you start the same topic in two different places ? It's my pleasure.
Sorry, I have no logical explination for my actions 😮 I did notice that I need to work on my spelling though.
Topic starter 26/11/2018 12:30 pm
Oh yes, I was laying around thinking and remembered the Doc said since all my other blood work looked good there was no need to run a full scale hormone test. Make sense??
26/11/2018 1:18 pm
No, it does not make sense . What do you mean with "looking good"?
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
Topic starter 26/11/2018 2:07 pm
No, it does not make sense . What do you mean with "looking good"?
everything else in the test looked to be at normal levels. They did not measure any other hormone levels just the usual, cholesterol, liver enzymes, RBC, WBC, albumin etc etc. Not sure why if all those values looked good why it excludes the need for a complete hormone level break down but that was his conclusion.
10/12/2018 11:24 am
Okay, now I got it . I think it's always a good idea (although not being a common clinical practice specially when the patient doesn't show any medical symptoms* and signs** of disease) to have a complete hormone test. It's easier to have access to blood work when you're monitored by an open-minded progressive doctor.
Just wanted to say that I have seen some guys that had excelecent HDL, LDL levels, total cholestherol, C-reatice protein, creatinine, PSA, etc. but with below normal or with low normal levels of testosterone. How would they know if they only had the conventional blood test?
*Symptom: Any subjective evidence of disease. A symptom is a phenomenon that is experienced by an individual and the sensations are only perceive only by the patient.
**Sign: Any objective evidence of disease. A sign can be detected by a person other than the affected individual.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.