long or short?

for suppression purposes the short cycles would be better, for overall gains, longer cycles have short cycles beat hands down. run the hcg during the cycle 500iu's twice a week.

jb

run 500iu twice a week...up until when?

I hav e afeeling in strength dept especially long cycles are better.

Posted by: Zircon

run 500iu twice a week...up until when?

I hav e afeeling in strength dept especially long cycles are better.

I run it untill I start pct

correct.

jb

I like short cycles. 2-4 weeks.

Better recovery, better lipids, no need for HCG risking desensitizing tests etc yet good results...

HOWEVER i've speaking based on my Anadroxyl-24027.html'>Anadrol- Test Prop experience.

The bad thing about short cycles, is that many people do them without enough time off. I do bloodwork quite frequently and before doing my second cycle I found out that my test and estrogen levels were high. Not much later I was ready to start my second cycle.

I like the idea of 4 weekers, and especially two weekers. But then you'd have to do bloodwork quite frequently and it can get really expensive. Otherwise you might be on almost year round. Or with horrible lipids etc.

John123 -what's your recommendation on short cycle time off and pct?

I have been doing prop 125mg eod and 30mg tbol ed 14 days. then 10 days clomid 50mg. 5 weeks off total then another 2 weeker. It works out to 7 cycles per year

2weeks on + 5 weeks off x 7 = 49. Then an extra couple of weeks just to make sure you recover fully.

from your experience what did you use for pct after 2 weekers? how long did you wait before styarting next?

did my bloods recently...came out great, test is 850 in range 300-1000

I havent done two weekers because, as I explained, it can get either too expensive, or risky.

When I did prop + drol , on a 4 weeker, I started Anadrol the last two weeks and thats when I made all or most of my gains. Thats why I think two weekers can do a lot for any non pro.

If you want to do things right,howver, I dont think you can trust anything but bloodwork. I mean, even if we assumed your blood levels were back to normal 5 weeks after a two weeker. Maybe they just resturned to normal? If true, would you really want to be in a "normal" state, just for a couple of days, every couple of months or so?

So even with two weeker, and with bloodwork done. I'd still take 2-3 months off every now and then. And what I mean by off is living 2-3 months with normal blood levels, post PCT.

My TOTAL test levels were high normal as well, post PCT. Then I found out that my free test levels were VERY high, and so were my estrogen levels.

I just waited some more, tested again, and the free test levels were borderline normal but on the botton side of the scale. Estrogen was back to normal. Total test was less than before but at "acceptable" levels.

I then did ZMA, Ginger, and Tongkat Ali, and ate foods that contained some cholestrol.

A week later I was back to normal.

It costed me lots of money, but I dont regret it. Theres always so many possibilities I wouldnt trust anyone saying anything about the perfect amount of time off. It can only be determined by bloodwork. And incomplete bloodwork can be misleading.

I can remember a rule on another board being time off = time on + time full htpa recovery + 1-2 weeks extra.

With a 2 weeker this would be 5-6 weeks.

Oh and an AI is also advicable when doing a 2 weeker.

why would you say AI is advisable? I think that is true -but surely it's safer than a long cycle?

anyway John - seems like you really have things down. Will be pinging you on my results if you dont mind. I will be doign regular bloods. when I did shorties 2 years ago i did regular bloods and everything always came back high normal (hormones) and estrogen waqs normal. Id di pretty mild short cycles though. which worked quite well for me.

the only problem is shorties get exp...prop is about 3x as exp as test enan where i get it

Hey Zircon, i'd love to hear about your results/experiences.

Not many people do shorties, and the ones that do, i'd say 95% of them dont do bloodwork.

Paying for bloodwork can get more expensive than buying prop or whatever because if your test level is low, or estorgen level is high or free test is low, then you'll have to do bloodwork all over again later on before starting your next cycle.

I think i'll just stick doing bloodwork for free test, total test, and estrogen, plus progesterone and prolactin if I were on tren or anything progesterone based. In addition to CBC, liver enzyme values, and kidney function.

Ahh, it can get so expensive sometimes especially if you have to rrepeat a test before getting "on" again. But what the hell we spend money sometimes on alcohol fast food etc, so I think monitering your health is worth it.

One more thing to worry about, is that hormones within the normal range does not necessarily = recovery. You want to know at what levels your hormones are at, when stable again, not when flunctuating up and down.