Gear for a Fight

40mg var should be good...some ppl have serious lipid inversion on Anavar, not sure what the deal with is with it.

var is not hard on the liver period

i would like to add to this post 11/23.

i personally do not think that var is hard at all on the liver as far as any type of pill such as ibuprofen, or almost anything your dr.prescribes you, and definately compared to any other 17aa. i think that the liver removes all waste or filters it at least ( and obviously that is a major understatement!) so if you eat a bunch of mcdonalds your liver profiles can be all out of whack! or get your profile after you go out for a bender one night!
so firstly take this with a grain of salt because i'm a fictional character on the internets ( not even a fictional dr), and secondly i made that statement with the intent that it be kept in the context of ingesting drugs.
this is only my theory based on medical papers that i've read that show people with liver disease are given 20-80mg ed indefinately, and the majority show improvement!

hey bjj what type of tren do you like acetate?

Posted by: rawdog

var is not hard on the liver period

Complete bullsh*t! I've seen the before and after blood tests pal.
Oxandrolone can significantly elevate liver enzymes at 40mg/day.
200mg/day is asking for trouble.

hitmeback is absolutely right on this issue. whatever would make you say that var is never hard on the liver? I have had problems with var! To say nothing of all the medical reports out there. IT is a 17aa!

jb

Anavar is an oral steroid, and has been alpha-alkylated to survive oral ingestion and the first pass through the liver, it�s still relatively mild in the respect that the unique chemical configuration of oxandrolone both confers a resistance to liver metabolism as well as noticable anabolic activity. It would also appear that Anavar appears not to exhibit the serious hepatotoxic effects (jaundice, cholestatic hepatitis, peliosis hepatis, hyperplasias and neoplasms) typically attributed to the C17alpha-alkylated AASs. Anavar has even been used successfully in some studies to heal cutaneous wounds, or to improve respiratory function.

that is cut and paste...i'm no dr. ...but i did post some shit on a website that talks about steroids! lmgdao!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...6&dopt;=Abstract
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content...act/311/23/1464 http://www.actupny.org/Vancouver/oxbackground.html

I have only tried the acetate....I am interested in enth, although it was hard to come by a couple years ago when I did that cycle.

In your first sudy, PPN, basically sugar water injected into the victims veins, was more effective than anavar and i did not see any measure of liver hepatoxicity. The second citation likewise did not measure toxicity. The third is a non specific citation outlining the use of anavar for treatment of aids. In reference to its use for aids related wasting, i would refer you to the real world site of m. mooney, a treasure trove of information gleaned from real world studies. http://medibolics.com/oxandrin2.htm This reference notes real world liver problems. keep in mind most of these studies are using doses from 20mg to a high of 80 mg. you are suggesting 200mg/day? sure, oxandrolone will help your liver if it is already severely jaundiced. Or if you are dying from aids related wasting, elevated liver enzymes might be the least of your problems. But to use the aids or alcoholic liver scenario is like saying chemotherapy is good for you. anavar is a mild anabolic, nothing marked about it in normal doses. at 200mg/day you will have the potentail for sky high liver enzymes and be on the virge of serious liver damage. We know why orals are aa, we also know that by doing that they become hepato-toxic. If you want to do 200mg/day be my guest but you will not recommend it on this board unless you can come up with more convincing studies than you did. In lower doses it can be mild but in effective doses, 80mg and higher it has the potential for being liver toxic. user beware. I have no problem with your saying, "hey i used it at 200mg/day and i survived just fine", what our members need to know is that there is a real potential for problems at higher doses.

We all know members that take more drugs than might be good for them but we hope that they are aware of the risks, try to mediate them appropriately. and accept responsibility for their actions. to say there is no risk is irresponsible.

BTW, the most common dose used in most clicical trials of hiv wasting apprears to be 20mg/day and in this study reported by JAMA one out of the 12 subject anavar group had to quit because of elevated liver enzymes at 20mg/D!

jb

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_docsum

wow...well i dont like var anyway...fuckin cripling pumps...im more interested in androgens that make you sick strong...and maybe help with the cardio aspect

i'm not suggesting anything other than the fact that var is a mild oral steroid, and has very very low toxicity compared to other 17aa. i think it's blatantly obvious that these studies prove that. if a person with aids or hepatitis can handle ( and improve their condition ) doses of 20-80mgs ed * i think i should not have to type another key after that *....then the level of toxicity must be low enough that i could say var is not hard on the liver period! i mean c'mon! how could someone with a shot liver handle the product at all?! not to mention improve their condition!

do youu like var as a cyclist? dont those pumps fuck with you?

I would agree that var is a mild steroid and has low toxicity compared to other steroids. WHere did i ever disagree with that? however it is clear at higher doses there can be problems.

if you persist i will win this arguement! i am telling you that var in high doses can in fact be harmful. I have experienced it, i have posted studies that demonstrate this, we have other members that will attest to it. var is commonly used in doses of 20 to 80mg and if you wish i have no problems stating that and using it.. You should be aware that at the higher doses it can cause liver problems, simply a fact. I will not allow you to state for a fact that it is not harmful to the liver at any dose nor will i allow you to recommend doses of 200mg/day. This is not a discussion at this point. I suggest you leave it at that.

jb

Posted by: rawdog

i'm not suggesting anything other than the fact that var is a mild oral steroid, and has very very low toxicity compared to other 17aa. i think it's blatantly obvious that these studies prove that. if a person with aids or hepatitis can handle ( and improve their condition ) doses of 20-80mgs ed * i think i should not have to type another key after that *....then the level of toxicity must be low enough that i could say var is not hard on the liver period! i mean c'mon! how could someone with a shot liver handle the product at all?! not to mention improve their condition!

JBoldman....whats your opinion on Tbol? Same as var? Lots of web sites out there suggesting TBOL is virtually harmless and you can take it nonstop for long periods of time....something I've always felt skeptical about..

bro nothing that is 17aa you can take for a long time bro

Posted by: jboldman

I would agree that far is a mild steroid and has low toxicity compared to other steroids. WHere did i ever disagree with that? however it is clear at higher doses there can be problems.

if you persist i will win this arguement! i am telling you that var in high doses can in fact be harmful. I have experienced it, i have posted studies that demonstrate this, we have other members that will attest to it. var is commonly used in doses of 20 to 80mg and if you wish i have no problems stating that and using it.. You should be aware that at the higher doses it can cause liver problems, simply a fact. I will not allow you to state for a fact that it is not harmful to the liver at any dose nor will i allow you to recommend doses of 200mg/day. This is not a discussion at this point. I suggest you leave it at that.

jb

will not allow you to state for a fact that it is not harmful to the liver at any dose nor will i allow you to recommend doses of 200mg/day
first of all i never reccomended any dose to anyone. you should read back some post and see who did. secondly i'm not arguing because i could really care less.
any substance in higher doses can be harmful to liver. that's a given.
but once again if someone with a wasting disease can take var and improve ( at 80mg ed ) i would feel comfortable doing 150mg ed ( as reccomended by dan duchaine? or some other steroid guru who is not a dr! )however i would know that HEY this has got to put a strain on the liver, but so does one night of binge drinking!
i hope you don't think i'm challenging you in some type of i can read more studies on the internet than you, or i have more steroid knowledge than you. becuase i'm not going to spend that much time reading medical papers, and i don't have shit for steroid knowledge other than what research i've done on the net. but i have read med papers on var ,and in comparison to other orals it's very mild. and you're right that i did state that it's not hard on your liver period, but i meant that in context. and i will stand by my theory ( that if someone with hepatitis which is a liver disease can take 80mgs ed and improve that var is super mild and not a problem to your liver) until i see a study that shows the effect on a healthy liver at those doses compared to the effects of ibuprofen or alcohol etc. hell i'm sure you can go binge at mc donalds and have your liver values increase!
so again i never told anyone to take a dose, further more i've never told anyone what or how much of anything to take. the most i'll do is share my experience and pass on some information that i've read. in fact anything i post on any site is only information that i've read on this site or others similar to it. i don't claim to have any medical training or an extensive personal steroid experience, but i do have a brain and i know how to draw my own conclusions.
thanks, raw