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Topic starter
04/06/2019 7:21 am
Evidence for decreased androgen 5 alpha-reduction in skin and liver of men with severe acne after 13-cis-retinoic acid treatment.
Boudou P, Chivot M, Vexiau P, Soliman H, Villette JM, Julien R, Belanger A, Fiet J.
Department of Hormonal Biology, Saint-Louis University Hospital, Paris, France.
To investigate the effect of 13-cis-retinoic acid (13-cis-RA) treatment on androgen metabolism in men with severe nodulocystic acne, eight men with severe acne received an oral daily dose of 0.7 mg/kg 13-cis-RA over 3 months. Exploration of androgen metabolism in serum samples, 24-h urine collections, and skin biopsies obtained before and at the end of the treatment revealed no significant alterations in serum levels of either adrenal or gonadal androgens. However, the treatment did induce significant decreases in serum levels of the 5 alpha-reduced androgens: 5 alpha-dihydroTestosterone(P < 0.02), androsterone glucosiduronate (P < 0.04), and 5 alpha-androstan-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol glucosiduronate (P < 0.004). Unlike serum, the urinary 5 alpha-reduced metabolites 5 alpha-androstan-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol and androsterone did not vary significantly despite a decrease in the excretion of the latter. Moreover, a marginally significant increase in urinary excretion of etiocholanolone, very similar to the decrease in androsterone excretion, was observed. The ratio of androsterone to etiocholanolone decreased significantly (P < 0.004) after 13-cis-RA therapy and suggested a metabolic deviation from the androgen 5 alpha- to 5 beta-reduction pathway in the liver. The most pronounced effect was observed in skin biopsies, which lost 80% of their ability to form 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (P < 0.001). It is concluded that 13-cis-RA therapy in men with severe nodulocystic acne did not alter gonadal or adrenal functions, but it did induce 1) a highly significant decrease in 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone formation by skin biopsies; 2) significant decreases in serum 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone, androsterone glucosiduronate, and 5 alpha-androstan-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol glucosiduronate; and, finally, 3) deviation of the liver androgen 5 alpha- to 5 beta-reduction pathway. The effect of 13-cis-RA treatment on severe acne is consistent with the dramatic decrease in androgen 5 alpha-reduction observed mainly in the skin.
dr frankenstein
04/06/2019 7:51 am
Ahem... So now I'm wondering if Accutane will decrease the overall effectiveness of a steroid cycle. I believe reducing the conversion to DHT usually does, although to what general degree I am uncertain.
This is a good one for Llewellyn.
Clarity
Topic starter
04/06/2019 8:17 am
i have used it,but no big difference at all.
dr frankenstein
04/06/2019 8:39 am
i have used it,but no big difference at all.
Thanks, bro.
I've never had to worry about 5 alpha reduction since I'm blessed with a full head of hair that won't fall out...lol
However, what I am facing now are overactive oil (sebaceous) glands on my face. Doc says the Accutane will shrink them. They aren't too noticeable except in certain light, nevertheless I'm very self conscious about them. They produce massive amounts of oil and have become enlarged, slightly raised above the surface of my skin. There is no acne on my face... just lots of oil. The acne is on my back...lol
Anyway, we must pick our battles. What is interesting to me is that although DHT is more androgenic than testosterone and binds much more tightly to the androgen receptor and for longer, there is no anabolic signal received inside the cell. DHT may send one, but it is not received. This is my understanding. However, it is known that lowering the level of circulating DHT in the blood reduces the anabolic activity of the administered parent drug(s)... or, rather, the degree of anabolic ACTIVITY within the organism.
My guess is that DHT has a direct effect on nerve excitation which promotes muscular strength and intensity throughout the body. This directly affects anabolism. So, DHT promotes anabolism through non AR mediated pathways. Also, I think it brings a "hardness" to the musculature. So how? There is so much shit I don't understand...lol
Clarity
04/06/2019 9:04 am
Keep your liver in check if you use accutane. Avoid orals and the like at all costs, accutane is pretty much nastier than most orals on your liver.
Good things come to those who weight.
The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.
04/06/2019 9:28 am
Keep your liver in check if you use accutane. Avoid orals and the like at all costs, accutane is pretty much nastier than most orals on your liver.
Let me ask you this... My dermatologist put me on 40 mg, 3x/week, (MWF), for 10 weeks and they all shrunk (oil glands). When I ran out, they came back. I could not afford to stay on. He says I can stay on a maintenance dose of 40 mg/week for life after the 10 week regimen. That would be 40 mg once a week.
Based on dosages I've seen prescribed to members of these boards, my regimen seems low, even at 120 mg/week. What is your opinion on this and how toxic do you think these dosages would be for me? I'm considering getting back on the Accutane. Thanks.
Clarity
04/06/2019 9:54 am
If you need them you need them, I mean I personally wouldn't think its worth it, but if it is clearly affecting some part of your life, then you need them. And if a single dose per week helps, I think it would be worth it for you.
My point was that, if you do, you should be extremely cautious with your liver. The toxicity is hard to quantify, one liver is not the same as the next, but accutane is up there with the harsher orals. If you use any more, or combine with any other drug that taxes the liver, I would certainly keep tabs on liver values.
Good things come to those who weight.
The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.