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Topic starter
26/06/2018 12:11 pm
I posted this reply recently on another board to the question "Do androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system"
It's really not quite correct to say androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system. It is a bit more complicated than that, not surprisingly.
Here is Immunology 101 in a nutshell. The immune system has two "arms of attack": the cell mediated arm and the humoral arm. The cell mediated arm, or cellular immunity, responds to general assaults on the body by sending out immune cells to do things like attack invading organisms, or degrade necrotic tissue, in a non specific manner. By non specific it is meant that the immune cells do not recognize the invader as a specific target with which they are familiar. Inflammation is an example of a cell mediated response. When you get a sliver or strain a muscle the body sends immune cells there to wall off the site, increase blood flow, remove damaged tissue, etc.
Humoral immunity involves B lymphocytes that secrete antibodies that bind to the target and allow immune cells to recognize the target immediately as an invader and launch an attack. When you are vaccinated for something, like smallpox, you are injected with a small inactive piece of the virus. This primes your body to make large numbers of B cell clones that, if ever challenged with smallpox for real, pump out antibodies that mark the virus for destruction by other cells. The big advantage of this system is that it is fast and efficient. The disadvantage is that it is very specific. The cellular response is not as efficient but it works against any invader, not just one for which there already exist primed clonal B cells.
There is an emerging model of how the sex steroids regulate the two arms of the immune system. It is thought that [URL= https://www.buy-steroids.biz/dragon-pharma-1277/sustanon-26441.html ]Testosterone[/URL] stimulates the humoral arm and suppresses the cellular arm. This paradigm arose from the study of autoimmune diseases which overwhelmingly plague women more than men. The majority of autoimmune diseases involve a cellular immune system gone wild. Since in men testosterone suppresses cellular immunity, men are much less likely to suffer from these diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis.
So when NFG123 mentioned that androgens are antiinflammatory, this is kind of what it means technically. Some steroids seem to have stronger effects than others. So when people say [URL= https://www.roidsmall.net/injectable-steroids-sale-509/deca-27874.html ]deca[/URL] improves joints because it makes you hold water, that is nonsense. It is an antiinflmmatory because it suppresses cell mediated immunity, which controls inflammation. it has nothing to do with water.
Why is deca's reputation as an antiinflammatory better than testosterone's for example? My guess is the minimal aromatization and its progestogenic activity. If you link to the article below and open the graphic, you will see a couple of interesting things.
First, progesterone, like testosterone, stimulates humoral immunity (the TH2 mediated response in the graphic) and suppresses cellular immunity (TH1 response). So progesterone has antiinflammatory action.
Second, estrogen exerts a biphasic effect. At low doses it is proinflammatory, stimulating the TH1 arm of the immune system (cellular immunity) and inflammation.
Deca then works both as an androgen and a progestin to quell inflammation. Testosterone, by virtue of its aromatization to estrogen is an inferior antiinflammatory.
If you want to learn more about sex hormones and immunity, this is a good article to start with
26/06/2018 1:09 pm
So.. when you say that Deca has anti inflammatory properties, is that where people are getting that it is "good for the joints" I searched high and low on that, and couldn't find any supporting information.
Topic starter
26/06/2018 1:45 pm
Yes, that is my theory. Deca has been used in several trials to treat the inflammatory symptoms of different autoimmune diseases like Sjogren's Syndrome and rheumatoid arthritis, with varying degrees of success. It is hardly a magic bullet but eases the symtoms and improves well being somewhat.
If that "lubing the joints" stuff were true, then other steroids that cause more bloating than deca would work better, and they don't seem to. There is just no evidence to support it, as you point out. The TH1 suppression caused by androgens/progestins makes perfect sense, agrees with the research, and is consistent with the clinical trials of deca in inflammatory disorders.
Topic starter
26/06/2018 2:46 pm
Hormonal influences. T helper 1 (TH1) cells secrete proinflammatory cytokines and promote cell-mediated immune responses, whereas TH2 cells trigger antibody production. In multiple sclerosis (MS) and rheumatoid arthritis (RA), there are features characteristic of a TH1 immune response directed against autoantigens in the central nervous system and joints, respectively. Pregnancy and systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) favor a TH2 environment. Sex hormones (such as progesterone) that promote the development of a TH2 response antagonize the emergence of TH1 cells. This may explain why in multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis disease symptoms improve during pregnancy, whereas in lupus, they do not.
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