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24/08/2018 8:32 am
Fact of the matter is many many ladies still come to men for advice on how to use steroids. Unfortunately most men don't have a clue and choose NOT to give advice but some others do give advice and it's not always good advice. There are, however, a few men that know what they are talking about when it comes to steroid use for women.
I think I have a good grasp on how a woman should use steroids.
I got this "know how" through personal research with my wife and through trial and error with my wife. I have also trained national level female bodybuilders, so I know what big doses are and also what they can do in regard to muscle gain and androgenic sides.
Guys...if you want to advise your woman on how to take gear then you better listen up or you could cause a lot of androgenic sides and she won't be pleased with that at all.
REALGAINS AND WIFE steroid advice for women.
I'll try to keep it brief and simple.
Women need to be fully aware of their goals BEFORE using gear. If they have the genetics to compete at the national level and WANT TO then they need to know that fairly heavy steroid use is REQUIRED if they are going to stand a chance in Hell of winning anything. Steroid choice for these women should still be primarily limited to the milder androgens but the doses with be highish and stacking common place.
MOST ladies are recreational lifters or minor competitors and do not have the genetics nor the interest in "going all the way" The advice below is geared towards these women and those that want to compete at local and perhas state events and at a high level in "fitness" competitions"
GEAR CHOICE
My wife has tried many steroids so I will relate good gear choices, cycles, results, and advice through her experience. She did all the following cycles for about 12 weeks.
primo 100mg/week started at about 75mg/weekand increased to 100 by about week 6
EQ at 75mg/week
winstrol 10mg/day in two doses
Winstrol 20mg/day orally in two doses/day
Winstrol 25mg IM every 3rd day
TESTOTERONE! 60mg/weekof prop, 15mg every other day for 6 weeks only. Stopped due to increased facial hair, large clit and a cracking voice. Hair has been lasered off thank God!
Nandrolone phenylprop 100mg/week. Started at about 75mg/week and increased to 100 after about week 6. Tken at 25mg every other day due to short half life.
Nandrolone phenylprop 75mg/week and Anavar 20mg/day in three doses/day.
Anavar 10mg/day in two doses
Anavar 15mg/day in three doses
Anavar 20mg/day in three doses
Anavar 25mg/day in three doses
RESULTS
All the above cycles gave good results in lean muscle gain and strength gain.
She experienced water retention on all cycles.
The nadrolone gave slightly more water retention than the others, except test, but she shoulders never hurt her while lifting heavy.
HER ADVICE ON ADROGENICITY.
Avoid the strong androgens at all costs(D-bol, test, IM tren etc).
Mild androgens can be very androgenic if dose is too large.
Test was by far the most androgenic hormone used followed by EQ. She ranks all others used as "about the same" doses although she experienced a few androgenic sides with the higher doses of Winstrol IM.
* Was aware of greater bioavailablity of IM hormones so she lowered weekly IM dose accordingly.
ANDROGENIC SIDES
Sides very minor but still there on as little as 10-15 mg of Var and Winstrol (minor acne on shoulders and some water retention.)
Acne on the shoulders on all cycles(mild) Worst on EQ and Test
Slight voice "hoarseness" in the voice at times that went away after stopping. Worst on EQ
Major cracking of voice on test.
As said, a fair amount of hair growth on upper lip while on test. A little(very minor) while on the steroids except low dose Var and low dose oral winny. All lasered off.
Clit got really big on test..about 5mm long and much thicker too. has gone down a bit but still large. She thinks this has been good for her sexually.
Water retention on all cycles and worse as dose increased.
FAVORITE STEROID
She liked the Primo and Var about the same, although she no longer uses Primo as she is afraid to get a fake.
So Var is now her #1 choice for herself and women in general and Denkall is her favorite brand as it has been tested as 100% pure and well dosed too. Second choice is Loeffler.
AND>>>>>>> her liver panel and lipid panel remained UNCHANGED after 8 weeks on 25mg of VAR/day! (piss me off )
ADVICE ON ESTERS
Avoid deca as nandrolone phenylprop is safer as one can "bail out" of a cycle if sides get bad. If you must use test use prop, for the same reason.
Be aware that Primo is almost always faked(deca) and that even if it is real it is in a long acting etser(enathate). Primo acetate is no longer available as far as we know.
EQ is also in a long acting ester.
If bad sides come on you MAY be able to bail out of a cycle with short acting/clearing injectables.
THE BIGGEST MISTAKE WOMEN MAKE according to my wife.
#1."They take up to 50mg of IM winstrol every other day, and that is way too much. They then say that winstrol is a "snake bite roid" or "not for most women" when the real culprit is the IM route and excessive dose. Many women do not understand that IM steroids are much more bioavailable than oral steroids and as such doses should be lowered"
#2. "Stacking" is not needed for all but the advanced competitor and can lead to excessive doses and androgenic sides" Always try each of the steroids that you want to use separately before trying to stack.
#3. "Too much too soon PEROID!"
MY WIFES SECRET TECHNIQUE.
My wife has always had a low test level. Many ladies(even young ladies) do not produce enough test in the adrenals and ovaries. Any women that has a test level of 30 or less doesn't have enough test for optimal sex drive and athletic function.
SO...she takes test gel from a compounding pharmacy every day at 2.5mg transderamally. This has rasied her T level to the mid normal range at about 55. When she wants to retain more of her mass post cycle she ups the dose to 5mg /day. This jacks her T level up to high normal for a woman(about 90)
So if ladies want to retain more mass post cycle maybe they should get there T level tested (after a couple mounths off gear of course) Few ladies have a T level in the high normal range and many have a low test level. Maybe your T level is low.
This is how you achieve a very low T level, if your T level is adequate, so your doc will prescribe T gel... take a steroid for a month and then go to your doctor complaining about a non existant sex drive. Ask for your T level to be tested. It will come back very low due to the steroid use. Then ask for a script of test gel from a "compounding Pharmacy"
WHERE TO START
My wife and I recommend 10mg of Var a day in two-three divided doses for 12 weeks as a beginning cycle. Denkall is our first choice.
If you can't find Var then try winstrol at about the same dose orally.
We DO NOT recommend that anyone go above the doses my wife has used as she feels she has pushed the dose to a realistic max.
Some ladies will react worse to androgens than others so START SMALL. Some can get away with quite a lot of gear and some can only use small amounts without bothersome sides.
* Some women react differently to each of the milder androgens, although my wife didn't notice much difference, so some experimentation and selective tinkering may be in order.
REALGAINS and his top trainees.
Well ladies and gents I am currently training a national level competitor and she is on 200 of deca a week, 25 of Var/day, 25 of winstrol/day , 4 of GH and slin too. She looks great and is very big but she is very pretty and with a sexy "build". Unfortunately she sounds like a guy, especially over the phone. Thats the price most women have to pay to reach the top.
BTW the pros use more!
ALSO....don't take this advice as "gospel". This is just some general good advice for most women we think. It has been "our experience"and our .02
RG and wife
24/08/2018 9:08 am
Interesting....very interesting
24/08/2018 11:31 am
I'd love to hear Torchy's overall take on this.
Topic starter
24/08/2018 3:49 pm
I respect TORCHY much and I invited her over.
RG
24/08/2018 4:42 pm
This is pretty much the same run down I were to give all ladies. Now, taking into effect half-life, crystallization, androgens v. anabolics. I am using your wife's outline as a guide and am by no means being offensive. I would still say eventhough I find many things you have said to be conservative, I myself would be a tad leary giving out certain advice that you have. That's my personal take. So, here goes...
primo 100mg/week
Primo, if legit, can be administered E7D at a dose of 50mg
EQ at 75mg/week
Starting dose should be no more than 50mg E7D
winstrol 10mg/day in two doses
High starting dose...5mg sufficient
Winstrol 20mg/day orally in two doses/day
High for many females for just recreational use
Winstrol 25mg IM every 3rd day
Crystallization into effect: 25mg E4D or a dose of 50mg E5D
is the best choice for a female and injectable winstrol for recreational use. Anymore, regardless of the typical "half-life" known to this compound, will cause major sides in females if taken over a prolonged period of time. Forget all notions of half-life. Crystals form when injecting winstrol and get stored in fat cells taking it longer to dissapate. Water retention minimal at best! If you do not believe me or think this is a crazy theory, try it for yourself on a female.
TESTOTERONE! 60mg/weekof prop, 15mg every other day for 6 weeks only. Stopped due to increased facial hair, large clit and a cracking voice. Hair has been lasered off thank God!
General good starting dose is 12.5mg E3D to keep sides minimal. 25mg E3D should be maximum dose. This follows the injection rule on the half-life.
Nandrolone phenylprop 100mg/week
25mg E3D will give you the chance to escape if you are sensitive to progesterone.
Nandrolone phenylprop 75mg/week and Anavar 20mg/day in three doses/day.
Anavar 10mg/day in two doses
Anavar 15mg/day in three doses
Anavar 20mg/day in three doses
Anavar 25mg/day in three doses
Average starting dose for anavar is 5mg split 6-8 hours apart(2.5am/2.5pm). Anavar ran over 20mg in most females will cause side effects. Lowering of the voice begins at 15, clit enlargement at 20mg. Anything over 20 should not be done by the recreational user.
Androgens and the female:
Tren, yes tren, at low doses is perfectly acceptable for an advanced female user. 5mg-7.5mg E3D injects will reap many benefits for a female experienced user. Keep in mind, 4 weeks is the maximum for a female and tren. Injection guide is once again the half-life rule.
Fast acting esters of test...E3D...half-life rule and low, minimal doses no greater than 25mg E3D.
Acne, raspiness, clit growth...water retention on certain compounds.
The female and EQ? It is one of the safer anabolics, however use must be longer than 8 weeks to see any results from the cycle. Only drawback with EQ and the female? Long ester therefore you can not back out quickly if sides arise. Stacking with this is a definite NO.
Lastly, advice on taking winstrol if no var is available I can not agree with. Oral winstrol and the female causes an issue. Water retention is extremely high on oral winni. Yes, females retain water on var, however it is not as great as that of oral winstrol.
I am by no means refutting any of your statements. What I have come to learn is that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. However, what I have come to learn is everyone needs a starting point. Many times these starting points are too high. Many times females back out of a cycle for the onset of side effects is great. There are too manymen out there behaving as if this is a science project. This is a female. There are consequences greater than you can imagine. Read, learn, ask...educate yourself. Trial and error is a risky business, but through this trial and error we will learn...so don't start where you can not attain the goal you intended to reach.
Topic starter
24/08/2018 4:56 pm
Thanx TORCHY. Good reply.
TORCHY...Does that low dose and infrequent use of Tren Actually give good muscle gains in ladies or just strength and a harder look?
ALSO...by the look of your avatar you are more than a recreational lifter. Can you give us a couple of examples of your favorite cycles?
Good point on the crystalization of IM winstrol. It indeed doesn't have a real half life due to this affect, and the larger the partical size the worse it is. I think every 3rd day is good for the small particaled Zambons but perhaps every 4-5th day injection is best for the recreational user as you say.
I forgot to mention that the IM doses of 100mg/week started lower than this but by week 6 were increased to 100. The cycles actually started at about 75.
I wonder how IM winny causes less water retention than oral winny...interesting. I will ask my wife in more detail about this and her experience.
Since she has stopped competition for a while all she uses now is 15 of Var a day in three divided doses due to short half life. Perhpas low dose VAR is all that any recreational lifter needs.
RG
24/08/2018 5:56 pm
The low dose tren sculpts. That is the best way I can say it. Some women that I have known to run it precontest, even following E3D or at the most EOD injection, have had hardening effects that were amazing. I have run it EOD, E3D and for a short period ED..which was not long...but too much for the female body. Suffered greatly with facial/neck hair that did slow down greatly once androgen levels dropped. With a low calorie diet, I managed to drop BF%, scale dropped, became harder and had a greater strength.
There is a female that I know of that has kept a journal on my board and grew with transdermal tren at 20mg E3D. Obviously the absorption rate brings it down I believe 50-60%. In four weeks she gained 13lbs, dropped BF%, and hardened.
The IM doses of what were 100mg, but lower? I am sorry if I missed what we are speaking of. I believe we are speaking of primo, but unsure.
The only "guess" I have to oral winstrol and injectable? Men take winstrol and do not retain water at the excessive rate that females do. Also, men are to take winstrol at a more frequent interval, right? Their bodies absorb it quicker when injected. Due to fat? I don't know. Females who go on the same injectable dosing plan as a male retain a greater amount of water. Many complain of ankle/finger bloat. When introducing the winstrol at the last stage of dissipation, you are not fluctuating our hormones or overloading us with this compound. It is a steady dose per se. When we are taking it orally, we automatically "blow up" within the first week of use. The availabilty of the winstrol either oral or injectable at an excessive rate creates mad amounts of water retention in females. This, again, doesn't happen in men. Body composition and the difference of fat storage...Again, I don't know. But taking the injectable winstrol at an E5D period greatly reduces this bloat.
Perhaps all that is needed is Anavar in a recreational user. In fact, I will go one step further: why do we need anything at all? When we start out simple, it escalates. We are designed for always wanting bigger and better things. If we need something, we want more. So, why anything at all? I certainly don't have the answer
Topic starter
24/08/2018 6:38 pm
The IM doses of what were 100mg, but lower? I am sorry if I missed what we are speaking of. I believe we are speaking of primo, but unsure.
Oh...I was talking about the primo and nandrolone phenylprop.
Perhaps all that is needed is anavar in a recreational user. In fact, I will go one step further: why do we need anything at all? When we start out simple, it escalates. We are designed for always wanting bigger and better things. If we need something, we want more. So, why anything at all? I certainly don't have the answer [/B]
Thats a good point. With proper training, nutrition and rest many can achieve quite a lot. However, I still think many women need to get their T levels checked as it does seem that a low T level in young women is NOT that uncommon and this will greatly reduce their ability to profit from weight training. Transdermal low dose T gel will greatly increase their energy level, improve gains from lifting a lot and help them loose body fat.
The gel has really helped my wife retain mass post cycle and has improved her sex drive and general energy level. She is also able to work longer and harder in cardio.
We got her sister on the T gel last year as her T level came in quite low at 25. The change in her body has been amazing . She is now finially seeing good results from her hard work in the gym. She has also been able to loose fat.
RG
24/08/2018 7:31 pm
torchy, could you comment on use of anti-e last couple of weeks for a figure girl
24/08/2018 8:13 pm
Since I became "round" and disabled from multiple injuries, I have taken on the role of coach/trainer. In the beginning with two or three of the girls I had go in to contest prep, the use of anti-e's were necessary...and that was my fault. I did not dial them down correctly with the use of training and diet to the fullest extent.
I have learned so well that food manipulation, as well as sodium/water manipulation, with the proper push on cardio and training can take a female 1000s of miles in two weeks it's crazy.
But I digress....If you want to use anti-e's, I would suggest one that's not an anti-e at all: proviron. It's a personal opinion and one that you would have to guage on how the appearance of your female was doing, but also one that would have to be run approx. 1 month right into showtime, provided it wasn't tested and tapered off after the show. It will provide the least "rebound" and give you hardening properties that you so desire. But this is my 2cc's.
Those like nolva will be a nightmare post comp with rebound. I have seen and heard stories that with some of the smartest contestants that makes me shy away from it.
Best of Luck to whomever....
25/08/2018 4:09 am
nervous about proviron due to its androgenic actions
this study showed acne & hirstuism. granted the dose was 150mg
can anyone get this full study?
25/08/2018 4:47 am
Well I do not compete so I can only attest to what I have read and what I have seen from experience of others...
yes many women use proviron leading up to contest. It IS highly androgenic but a weak anabolic. However anti e's can stimulate Testosterone as well. Obviously ANY anabolic is going to give the possibility of androgenic sides, no matter how mild it is.
And yes the rebound as I have heard from every woman who has used an anti e is the rebound is horrific. Many put on 20+ lbs of water only days following contest and there hormones go pretty wacky. If you HAVE to do it (I would avoid it is at all possible) I would keep it to the lowest amt possible and cycle up and down but not everyone agrees here. Think about a girl starting the pill and ballooning up on it. This is usually because it is a pill containing estrogen. When you stop the body receiving it when it is able to produce it tries to overcompensate. A woman's body is very unique and complicated.
Also there was no mention of kinds of anti e's you were considering. nolva is techincally an adrogen as well. Nolva blocks the binding ability but Proviron has the ability to stop the production of it.
25/08/2018 6:13 am
nervous about proviron due to its androgenic actionsthis study showed acne & hirstuism. granted the dose was 150mg
can anyone get this full study?
I do not believe a half to a whole pill(25m) of proviron to give acne nor hair growth...She is not taking the amounts a man would take, keep this in mind.
And IMHO, you do not want her to take nolva. Like stated before, that's my personal take on it. She will regret she ever took it.
Your best bet, truly, is diet, sodium, water, and training manipulation above and beyond any anti-e or proviron. Sodium manipulation far exceeds the hardness any pill can give you.
25/08/2018 7:05 am
nice to see that avatar back torchy!
jb
25/08/2018 8:00 am
nice to see you as well jb!