Notifications
Clear all
Topic starter
18/07/2018 4:30 am
I would like to encourage everyone to contribute what they can to this post on insulin. I am going to start by posting some information from some other sources.
Big Fat Bastards and Insulin
by Author L. Rea (author of Chemical Muscle Enhancement)
Chemical Muscle Enhancement: Bodybuilder's Desk Reference - "Chemical Muscle Enhancement" is the equivalent of a bodybuilder's "Physician's Desk Reference" (PDR). Author L. Rea has profiled the drugs used by today's mass monsters to create the cartoon proportioned superhero physiques most can only dream of. From beginner to advanced, adult man or woman, this is the must have book for the chemically enhanced athlete.
Warning: The following information is intended only as a hypothetical consideration of ways in which human physiology may be altered, through pharmacological means, to achieve striking muscularity. The drugs discussed in this series of articles are, by and large, prescription drugs and should not be used without the supervision of a qualified physician. No attempt should be made to circumvent the laws in your area to obtain these drugs without a prescription. As always, MESO-Rx does not condone in any way the illegal acquisition and/or use of prescription drugs for purposes other than those approved by the FDA or other legally recognized regulatory bodies.
Ask any of the elite who has become truly massive beasts which anabolic substance has had the most profound effect upon their physique and the answer from the largest mammals will unanimously be insulin. Though GH has brought to the forefront of competitive stages the well retained lean muscle mass tissue displayed beneath an onion skin exterior of today, it is the symbiotic relationship insulin has with all other physical enhancement chemistry that has made beasts what they are in the new millenium.
Insulin is predominantly a storage hormone in that it initiates a cascade of cellular events that result in up-regulation of cellular nutrient content. It obviously goes without saying then that supraphysiological plasma levels of insulin result in supraphysiological cellular levels of nutrients. This in itself allows for a highly anabolic effect known as an osmotic response. A cellular osmotic response is nothing more than an increase in water and growth potentiating nutrients intracellularly that has a effect similar to increasing the amount of air in a balloon. More air in the balloon means a larger balloon. More water and proportionate growth nutrients means a larger cell. Interesting enough is the fact that this also triggers another survival mechanism that tells the stretched cell wall to increase in thickness to accommodate the osmotic response. This is due to an up-regulation in localized IGF-1 and MGF production and the synergistic response initialize. Oh ya. That is anabolism in the form of hypertrophy. Unfortunately, insulin is quite anabolic to fat cells too.
Since insulin is the body’s main "storage" hormone it should come as no surprise to the reader that many diabetics and would-be beasts alike have become horribly fat as a result of improper insulin use and misguided dietary habits. Many bodybuilders have employed the 10-15 grams of carbohydrates per IU of insulin administered protocol with a great deal of success in spite of the inherent dangers of non-medical insulin use. However many, who have either become insulin resistant/insensitive or are genetically predisposed to inordinate adipose (fat) tissue accumulation, have endured a greater anabolism of adipose tissue than muscle. Some have foolishly put on more covering clothing and simply accepted this as a necessary side effect endured for the greater eventual goal. Others have added the additional potential negative side effects of heart arrhythmia/tachycardia, diabetes, and other not so fun stuff as well.
As I have pointed out many times before, adipose tissue is a major site for aromatase enzyme activity which in itself compounds the Big Fat Bastard problem. Many AAS (anabolic/androgenic steroids) are susceptible to the effects of aromatase enzyme conversion to estrogens as is endogenously produced (made inside the body) androgens such as testosterone. Obviously the greater the volume and activity of this enzyme that exists in the body, the greater the chance and degree of aromatization that occurs. Estrogen is directly anabolic to a minor degree to muscle tissue. Both fortunately and unfortunately it is highly anabolic to adipose tissue. Since estrogen is the hormone that induces female pattern fat deposits it is fortunate because a nice rack is a thing of beauty. Unfortunately I have as of yet not noted a single male bodybuilder who looked good or happy with boobs or any other fatty female attributes. So a greater degree of adipose tissue accumulation from insulin administration results in a compounded adipose tissue storage effect from aromatase enzyme susceptible AAS employment.
In some instances the result of this vicious cycle is bodybuilders who fail to ingest adequate calories during AAS protocols as a means of decreasing adipose tissue accumulation. Unless you are from another planet you realize this also limits muscular growth potential as well.
Before we discuss all of the interesting facts concerning the means of becoming a big fat bastard, it is necessary to have a fundamental understanding of the macronutrient product glucose.
GLUCOSE
Glucose is the body’s preferred energy substrate. Though the brain’s nutrient make-up is nearly 1/3 omega-3 fatty acids it is glucose that is without fail mandatory for continued sentience. So carb up a little and read closely as we learn a few things about the body we have been entrusted to play nice with.
When we ingest food stuffs in the form of the three macronutrients protein, carbohydrates, and fats the GI track introduces a series of chemical Action/Reaction Factors that result in the break-down of these nutrients to metabolic substrates.
Proteins = amino acids
Carbohydrates = glucose
Fats = fatty acids
It appears simple on the surface but in fact glucose can be converted to triglycerides and adipose tissue or lean tissue glycogen stores and toilet tinkle. Like wise fatty acids can be stored as fat or utilized as an energy substrate by the body’s tissues but it cannot be converted to glucose. This is interesting when one considers the fact that carbohydrates can become glucose or fat, but fat cannot become glucose (though the cellular mitochondria can use fatty acids as an energy substrate as a keto response). Protein is ultimately destined to become amino acids employed for cellular repair and growth or intimate moments with the bathroom. But certain amino acids called gluconeogenic amino acids can be converted to glucose too. This can be disastrous for a bodybuilder who hopes to be a beast one day since lean muscle mass is predominantly made up of protein in the form of amino acids and a complete spectrum is necessary. We will get to this later. For now simply accept that glucose is necessary for life and bodybuilding progress alike.
The average circulatory value for glucose allows for about only 4 grams of glucose. It is actually uncommon for blood glucose levels to rise beyond an additional 1.5-2.0 grams or to drop below the 4 gram mark. A healthy individual who ingests a meal containing 50-150g of mixed carbohydrates will realize the normal increase in circulatory glucose for only about an hour. Interesting thing here is that endogenous (made by the body) insulin secretion will remain elevated for an additional 2 hours after glucose clearing. When the same individual ingests 300g of carbs (Fat Bastard) at one time the resulting insulin secretion levels will be 300% above normal for an additional 7 hours after blood glucose clearing. This is clearly a highly anabolic environment, but after tissue glycogen stores reach maximum levels a grotesque amount of the excess glucose finds its way to adipose tissue. And don’t worry. If all of the existing fat cells are full, the body is way to happy to make new ones to secrete lots of aromatase enzyme. And herein awaits the key to greater lean mass tissue and a decrease in adipose tissue.
GLUCONEOGENESIS
Gluconeogenesis is the biosynthesis of new glucose. This means that glucose is synthesized from other substrates than carbohydrates or glycogen stores. Obviously since the only source of fuel for the brain, testes, kidneys, and erythrocytes is glucose the body in its amazing adaptive manner can manufacture glucose from other materials. Those who are up on keto diets are aware of the fact that the body can derive energy from ketone bodies (which are converted into acetyl-CoA). But that is an entire different topic for now. In short the body utilizes the carbon structures within substrates to create energy in the eventual form of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). ATP is cellular energy that, as readers are aware, is the body’s only energy currency. In the case of gluconeogenesis the carbon structures can come from other sources.
Triglycerides are structures consisting of three fatty acids adjoined by a glycerol molecule. By cleaving the fatty acids away from the glycerol molecule the body can utilize the freed glycerol molecule to make glucose through a series of conversions and subsequent carbon utilization.
With the exception of lysine and leucine all 20 (or 22 if you are of that school of thought) amino acids can be turned into TCA cycle intermediates which in turn allows for the carbon skeletons of the amino acids to be converted to pyruvate. The newly formed pyruvate can then be utilized by the gluconeogenic pathway to create glucose by way of another series of metabolic pathways. Let me explain that a little better. When glycogen stores in the liver and muscle are depleted the working/recovering muscles, brain and organs need another energy source. Catabolism of muscle tissue proteins to amino acids becomes the main source of carbon skeletons for the maintenance of mandatory blood glucose. As you will recall the body can clear 50 –150 grams of carbohydrates in only a few hours.
So how much muscle do you think the gluconeogenic adaptive process can munch in the same period of inadequate nutrient supply from diet? By the way, the amino acid Alanine is the favorite gluconeogenic snack with Arginine and glutamine coming in as close seconds.
THINK ABOUT IT
In the presence of circulatory insulin elevation gluconeogenesis in the liver and muscle tissue decreases. During periods of circulating supraphysiological levels of amino acid muscle catabolism decreases. In the presence of both protein synthesis occurs.
So it would seem that the two choices a wanna-be beast faces is 300 grams of carbohydrates to induce a sufficient prolonged insulin spike and a Big Fat Bastard pose down or non-stop keto diets and declarations of "Hey, I may look like a weenie but I am really cut" for life.
The obvious solution is an elevation in both circulatory insulin and a corrected amino acid pool rendered highly efficient by design and not by chance.
Insulin administration is nothing new to the larger beasts of the bodybuilding world. Unfortunately neither is Big Fat Bastard status in the brief off-season. So it should come as no surprise to those who have entered the realm of the chemically enhance athlete to learn that insulin can make even the best genetically predisposed individual fat. It has been my experience that this is simply not necessary.
Insulin forces excessive amounts of amino acids into muscle cells when an adequate supply exists at the time of insulin exposure. Insulin also triggers increased muscle cell glycogen synthesis by way of positively effecting the rate limiting enzyme glycogen synthase. We also know the positive effects correct application of supraphysiological insulin levels has had upon the most catabolic pathway there is that affects muscle mass from reading my two prior books. Add to this the fact that insulin is synergistic to and with all other chemicals of muscular enhancement and realize the potential.
In relationship to goals it would seem evident that a protocol employing the attributes of insulin would necessitate the symbiotic relationship the hormone has with macronutrients as it applies to lean muscle mass tissue.
Muscle is more than 80% protein by dry weight.
ATP is the energy currency of muscular contractions, repair, and growth.
Glucose is the prime source substrate for ATP synthesis and mandatory for proper brain and organ function (yes, that one also).
Excess blood glucose will result in excess adipose tissue accumulation.
The Protocol
Diet
When this protocol was created its intent was rapid accumulation of lean mass tissue without an increase in adipose tissue deposits. Since the foundation of the diet was structured for efficient gluconeogenic dependant upon a correct ratio and amount of amino acids, a great deal of protein was consumed daily. The most effective protein intake minimum was the equivalent of 3 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight daily divided into at least 6 meals. Using a 200 pound individual as an example it was possible to reduce this slightly by simply eating 4 whole food meals daily providing 50 grams of whole protein each and sipping on whey protein drinks in water throughout the day
providing the remaining 400 grams of protein. I preferred whey protein simply because it is one of the only two drinkable products I am aware of that allows for actual hyperaminoacid response in the circulatory system. Casein, egg, and (some people still use it) soy proteins fail to clear the GI track at a rate significant enough to induce the necessary supraphysiological amino acid concentrations for the protocol. The fact that whey protein is easily oxidized by the liver should be the first clue to the reason why results are superior. By the way, the other is Human Profile by Hazardous Materials (it is nearly 100% absorbed)
So here is the kicker. Though fat intake could be quite high, total daily carbohydrate intake could not exceed 0.5 grams per 25 pounds of bodyweight daily. The reason is simple: The goal was to force the body to employ the gluconeogenic pathway as a means of energy production. Any degree of actual glycogen regeneration resulted in the body returning to the glycosis pathway which allows for adipose tissue accumulation. The reason this worked so well was simplistic in nature. The making of ATP through amino acid gluconeogenesis is very inefficient thus allowing for a huge calorie expenditure similar to what occurs during DNP utilization. During calorie expenditure the body does not store fat but it does undergo protein anabolism. When enough protein was ingested the result was always a net increase in lean body mass of 5-8 pounds by the end of a two week protocol. Not bad for an experienced beasts, huh?
Additional Supplements
Since exogenous insulin was utilized during this protocol and, as mentioned prior, the gluconeogenic energy pathway loves certain amino acids it is easy to realize that the normal ratio of amino acids derived from whey protein and whole foods was not likely adequate. A mixture of 4 parts Alanine, 2 parts glutamine, 2 parts Arginine and 1 part Taurine was created and capsulated. The dosage ingested was 1 gram of the supplemental mix per I.U. of insulin administered daily divided into 2 post administration dosages.
The preparation for this protocol required a liver glycogen depletion period of 24 hours prior to initial insulin administration. This was done to initiate the gluconeogenic pathway prior to protocol onset thus preventing any loss of lean tissue growth potential.
Though only a total idiot would ever assume that non-medical exogenous insulin use was safe, the utilization of a fast acting insulin was the better choice for this protocol. The first reason of course being that short acting chemistry also means shorter periods of potential exposure to negative side effects like a coma. Second is the fact that it was necessary due to the relevance in liver capacity for glucose manufacture by way of gluconeogenesis. Running out of adequate glucose reserves would introduce a series of potential negative side effects that would have required the ingestion of dextrose to inhibit.
EXAMPLES OF INSULIN
Name of Insulin Start Activity Highest Activity Ends Activity Low BS
Very short-acting (Humalog) 10 minutes 1.5 hours 3 hours 2-4 hours
Short-acting (Regular/-R) 20 minutes 3-4 hours 8 hours 3-7 hours
Intermediate acting (Nor L) 1.5-2 hours 4-15 hours 22-24 hours 6-13 hours
Long-acting (Ultra Lente) 4 hours 10-24 hours 36 hours 12-28 hours
Combination: 70% N/30% R 0-1 hour 3-13 hours 12-20 hours 3-12 hours
Combination: 50% N/50% R 0-1 hour 3-12 hours 12-20 hours 3-12 hours
Humalog was administered about 15 minutes before an appropriate meal
Regular Type-R was administered 30 minutes before an appropriate meal
Low BS = Low blood sugar (Glucose).
As the reader can see when viewing the examples of insulin above, the employment of Humalog allowed for a total of 4 daily administrations of 10-15iu each and Humulin-R (Short-acting) only allowed for 3 daily administrations. This is not to say some have not increased the dosage or chose different insulin analogs, but it is to say that under these circumstances it was not necessary or more effective.
When looking at the following example consider these facts:
Testosterone Suspension has an active-life of about 24 hours tough plasma androgen levels remain elevated for about an additional 24 hours.
Sex hormones such as testosterone and estrogens are inactive when bound by SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) and free or active when not.
Insulin is a powerful SHBG inhibitor.
Insulin increases muscle glucose transporters and androgen receptors
Protocol Example
Day Protocol Day Protocol
1. Testosterone Sus. 150mg 15. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
2. Humalog 10iu 4xd 16. Humalog 10iu 4xd
3. Testosterone Sus. 150mg 17. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
4. Humalog 10iu 4xd 18. Humalog 10iu 4xd
5. Testosterone Sus. 150mg 19. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
6. Humalog 10iu 4xd 20. Humalog 10iu 4xd
7. Testosterone Sus. 150mg 21. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
8. Humalog 10iu 4xd 22. Humalog 10iu 4xd
9. Testosterone Sus. 150mg 23. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
10. Humalog 10iu 4xd 24. Humalog 10iu 4xd
11. Testosterone Sus. 150mg 25. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
12. Humalog 10iu 4xd 26. Humalog 10iu 4xd
13. Testosterone Sus. 150mg 27. Testosterone Sus. 150mg
14. Humalog 10iu 4xd 28. Humalog 10iu 4xd
Testosterone Sus. = Testosterone Suspension
150mg of testosterone suspension created a great deal of estrogen since it originates as a non-esterfied AAS. Estrogen up-regulated the muscle cells glucose transporters called GLUT-4 and increased androgen receptor sensitivity. This also meant that the administered testosterone was free or unbound from its inactivating protein SHBG. A great deal of the hormone entering the circulatory system was quickly bound, though not before a serious degree of anabolism occurred. But there is a portion left bound and in reserve.
Topic starter
18/07/2018 5:04 am
Insulin inhibited SHBG resulting in a synergistic pro-anabolic response. By freeing the remaining prior days administered testosterone from SHBG an increase in androgenic activity was realized. Since SHBG is also estrogens binding protein the excretion of estrogens was dramatically accelerated. This resulted in rapid estrogen clearing and a notable increase in GH secretion which was amplified by the lack of the inhibitory effect normally caused by excess glucose. As most readers are aware, GH and insulin must both be present in the liver to produce IGF-1.
The end result was adequate glucose regeneration at the expense of adipose tissue with a profound degree of lean tissue protein synthesis and growth. No more Big Fat Bastard!
Topic starter
18/07/2018 5:57 am
How to use insulin - the most anabolic hormone
I am reposting this by request. It was originally posted on AF by Juice Junkie.
This is pretty much a beginners guide to getting started on insulin.
Directions for first time insulin users
This is an article I wrote a little while ago and posted on several boards. I know its a long post but take the time and read it because your life does in fact depend on it. There are a couple other articles on the Anabolic Review board in the Hot Topics Section but I think they all pretty much have the same info.
Let me know if you have any questions
Insulin is the most anabolic hormone you can take. On the other hand its also one of the most dangerous for two reasons availability and ignorance. I will be the first to tell you that every time I have been hypoglycemic (when blood sugar drops to dangerous levels) its has been as a result of something I did wrong. Used responsibility and with respect for the potential sides it is quite safe and extremely effective. That being said we'll start off with what you are going to need.
Equipment:
There are several types of insulin out there but for our purposes we are only interested in two. The first being my favorite Humulin R and the other being a bit newer to the body building community Humalog.
Humulin R is the most widely used and time tested insulin in our arsenal. It has a max duration of 4hrs and its peak can been seen around 2hrs after injection. This becomes particularly important when planning out you meals for the day so keep the timetables in mind.
Humalog is a bit newer but some feel just as effective and a bit safer. Humalog has a max duration of 2hrs and its peak can be seen around 1hr after injection. When selecting to use one or the other keep in mind your schedule, meals, and physical activity for the day as it will all play a role. One other point that needs mentioning is that Humulin R is available over the counter at pretty much every pharmacy in the country for about $25 for 10ml (which will last you a very long time) and Humalog is available only through a prescription or over the black market for a price about double that of Humulin R. When approaching a pharmacist keep in mind that its a lot more convincing if you buy the needles at the same time you get the insulin. This way they are less likely to refuse to sell it to you which they have been known to do from time to time. If this should happen just continue on to the next pharmacy and despite what they tell you "you dont need a prescription" it might be their store policy to see one but legally it is not required and if you make enough of a fuss you will get what you need.
The next thing you will need is the actual needles for injection. These are not the same type that you would use for anabolics or other androgens. The type of needles you will need are U100 insulin needles. That is exactly what you need to say when are trying to buy them. A box of 100 will usually run about $15-$25 and again will last you quite a while. Be fore warned now, using a syringe labeled with cc/ml or anything other than u100 is potentially fatal. The difference between the amount of insulin used for our purpose and that which will kill you is less than 1/2 a cc.
The next two things I think you will need and I highly recommend having on you is a wrist watch with a chronograph (stopwatch) and glucose tabs and/or a can of soda. First I'll explain the wrist watch. The stop watch is to be started immediately after the injection and monitored periodically to keep track of what is in your body and how long it is active. This can also be used to determine whether or not you are feeling side effects or simply just nerves from the fear that follows using for the first time. For instance I always use Humulin R which we know has a duration of 4 hours and a peak at 2 hours. This means that the greatest effects will be felt somewhere between 1-1/2 to 2 hours after injection and then they will steadily lessen till it is no longer active 4 hours after injection. When you use a stopwatch you have an accurate record of when you felt the effects which will become more important as you get more experienced using insulin. The glucose tabs are your safety net. If you are feeling hypo (hypoglycemic) these tabs will return your blood sugar levels to a safe range where you can get some food. They are available at all pharmacies for about $1.00. I have also used a soda. Soda is high in simple carbs which act quickly when blood sugar is low and allow you to get to a safe range where you can get some food in you. Now that we've covered all the equipment needed to safely use insulin we'll move on to dosage diet and scheduling.
Dosage diet and scheduling:
Whenever you start insulin its always wise to start at a lower dose and taper up over the first couple of days of use. Insulin is still new in our community and there is a potential for becoming diabetic so dont take chances start small more is not better where insulin is concerned more is simply more fat and more dangerous. This is a schedule I use when just starting insulin:
day1: 5iu's post workout
day2: 6iu's post workout
day3: 7iu's post workout
day4: 8iu's post workout
day5: 9iu's post workout
day6: 10iu's post workout
day7: same as day 6
This concludes week once from here on out this is how I proceed. If I am going to be increasing my dose even further.
day8-10: 10iu's morning, 10iu's post workout
day11-14: 10iu's morning, 10iu's noon, 10iu's post workout
day15 and on: increase post workout dose till I start to feel symptoms of hypoglycemia and then back the dose down accordingly. THIS IS ONLY FOR ADVANCED USERS, DONT EXCEED THE DAY 7 DOSE TILL YOU GET SOME TIME UNDER YOUR BELT. I AM NOT KIDDING YOU WILL DIE!!!
Your diet will depend on the amount of slin you take per injection. The rule is 10 grams of carbs per IU of insulin. Therefore if you take 10iu's at an injection you need 100 grams of carbs. This is a bit overkill the actual figure is about 5-7 grams but its best to stick with the 10 rule while starting out. I feel that the best most accurate way to consume the proper amount of carbs after an injection is through MRP's or other shakes. The amounts of carbs on these are far more accurate than those you will find on the back of a bread bag. My meals are usually layed out like this:
7am: 10iu's insulin, shake
9am: shake
12pm: 10iu's insulin, lunch
2pm: shake
4pm: shake
6pm: workout
7pm: 10iu's insulin, shake, higher in carbs than others
9pm: dinner
11pm: safe for bed
If you'll notice there is a method to the madness above. After taking your first injection if insulin you will need a shake immediately. After this you are good for the next 2 hrs till the insulin peaks. Once you hit the 2hr mark you will need more carbs either another shake or a meal with sufficient carbs. After you have cleared the 4hr mark you will be clear from danger. Now this is all based on using Humulin R. If you are using Humalog you will need to take your first meal after injection and another "1hr" after. Then after the 2hr mark you will be safe. My shakes are made up of 1/2 pack of MetRX (berry) and 2 scoops GNC brand weight gainer (vanilla) and 16oz of whole milk. This shake has a caloric value of about 800 cals and around 50grams of protein and 150+grams of carbs. This is a good meal for those starting out. As you progress though you will want to decrease the carbs and eliminate the fat completely to maximize lean mass gains and minimize water and fat retention but for the purposes of starting out simply taking t3 will offset any fat gained. One thing to keep in mind is that T3 will reduce your sensitivity to insulin allowing you to take a higher dose but again save this till you get some more time in.
Side effects and procedures:
After injection and starting your stopwatch your first task is to get some carbs in. Next the first sides you will feel is tired. This is normal and is to be expected. You will usually feel this somewhere between 15-30 minutes after your injection. The key here is not to sleep, if you sleep you wont feel further more dangerous sides and therefore you wont be able to save your ass. The next thing you need to do is have another meal/shake at the 2hr mark. If you miss this just get it in as soon as possible. If you delay long enough you will start to feel hypo around 3 to 3-1/2 hours after injection. When this happens you will feel a sort of numbness that I can only relate to ephedrine. After this you will start to get some shakes in your hands followed by a cold sweat. Once you get to this point you are full blown hypo, the next thing that will follow will be a bit of tunnel vision and this is as far as I’ve been after this its all textbook I imagine coma will follow shortly after passing out. When you get the symptoms listed above don’t hesitate. Get some soda/glucose tabs followed by a meal or shake. One other fact I neglected to mention is that a mix of carbs is necessary when consuming a meal. Simple carbs are used to quickly and complex don’t kick in fast enough. A good mix is the way to go.
18/07/2018 6:38 am
This was written by Big Cat from bodybuilding.com. The original article can be found here:
Insulin
Effective dose: 5-15 IU/ day
Average Street-price: $20 for each 10 ml vial (1000 IU)
Available Doses: Humulin-R is most used, and is available without prescription at any pharmacy in 10 ml vials.
Characteristics:
Insulin is not an androgen, or a steroid for that matter. Insulin is a proteinaceous hormone that is secreted from the pancreas, mostly in response to high sugar levels. It's a polypeptide made from 51 amino acids, separated in an A and B chain by a sulfide bridge (Covalent bond). Its main use is to regulate blood sugar levels. If blood sugar levels are too high insulin is released, which stores more glucose in the cells as the polysaccharide glycogen, the prime energy source in the human body. This alone makes it a valuable hormone. But it also increases the uptake of other compounds into the cell. This includes protein. Since anabolic steroids increase protein synthesis, and we eat lots of protein, the only thing missing in that system is a way to get the amino acids to where the protein is synthesized. Insulin can do that. Its interesting to note that insulin does not have a direct negative feedback system like steroids do. When blood sugar levels drop, cells simply become more resistant to the insulin and don't receive as much of an impulse to store glycogen as they would at first. This is important, as it will have certain implications.
Insulin was designed for diabetics, a disease marked by one characteristic : too much blood sugar due to an insulin deficiency. There are two types of diabetics, but this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. As with anabolic androgenic steroids, taking endogenous insulin will shut down natural pancreatic secretion action. This is not as easily solved as with steroids, where production eventually bounces back. Warning number 1 : Insulin use can, and in the long run will, make you a life-time diabetic. Keep that in mind before you decide that insulin might be for you. On the one hand this is a good way to get a discount maybe, on the other hand, injecting daily for the rest of your life is not a pleasant outlook. On second thought scratch that, there is no positive side as insulin is available freely without prescription at a fairly low cost. This is because when a diabetic does not get his insulin in time it may be fatal. When a diabetic goes into seizure you don't want to waste time going to a doctor to quickly obtain a prescription. By then its too late.
There are three types of non-prescription insulin. Fast-acting, which is mostly used, known as Humulin-R. Then there is an intermediate form (Humulin-N or Humulin-L) which can last almost three times as long, which means up to a day. And lastly there is the Humulin-U, which stays active for longer. Particularly useful for diabetics who may forget their shots, as it stays active longer than a day. There is also a really fast-acting form called Humalog, but this is only available via prescription since it's the most easily abused and the Humulin-R suffices for most diabetics. Humulin-R is the compound most used by the way because it's the shortest acting form. Yes, that's a good thing. In fact it's a very good thing. When administering supra-physiological doses of insulin, more glucose is stored as glycogen resulting in a lower blood sugar level. When your blood sugar level is too low, its called hypoglycemia and it can cause you to go into shock and die. Warning number 2 : If proper protocol for using insulin is not followed, you can die. This has two definite implications. First of all it explains why you want the short-acting form. Blood sugar levels need to be monitored over the active time, so you obviously don't want it to stay active for 24 hours or longer. The second implication is that obviously sugar has to be taken with the insulin to prevent hypoglycemia and sugar needs to be kept on hand for the entire duration of activity, which is 6-8 hours. If dizziness or weakness occurs, more sugar has to be taken. This will be discussed in the how to use section.
Initially, doses of insulin will make you leaner as you store more carbs that would otherwise be stored as fat. But as people will tell you, it eventually has a tendency to make you fat. As indicated earlier, there is no negative feedback, but cells develop a resistance to insulin, in which case circulating excess carbs will be processed as adipose tissue. And if you know what's good for you, you will have circulating extra carbs.
Stacking and Use:
Insulin is obviously best stacked with some form of anabolic androgenic steroid. Its mostly added to stacks including the extremely expensive human growth hormone.
Its proper use entails a single shot once a day of a short-acting compound. Usually Humulin-R, unless Humalog can be obtained. Its best used after a training session, when the body already has a tendency to store more carbs and protein. Although some people prefer other times of day. The standard protocol suggests the use of 1 IU per 20 pounds of bodyweight, but you would do best to start out at a lower dose like 2-4 IU and then work your way up a bit, until you feel you are taking enough. As doses increase, so does the amount of sugar that is ingested with them. Again a standard of 10 grams per IU is given, but I would recommend a dose of 150 grams regardless of the amount as long as it is below 15 IU's, if it is higher then add 10 grams for every IU. Since the compound stays active for 6-8 hours, hypoglycemia can occur at any moment during this time span. So consuming carbs during this time is advised, and at the very least keep a large amount of them handy, so you can act quickly. Dizziness, weakness and feeling sleepy are all pretty indicative of the onset of hypoglycemia and a good sign that you should take another good dose of sugar.
The carb source suggested here should be glucose (dextrose). This is basically blood sugar and will absorb the fastest, minimizing the risk as opposed to other carbs. Mix 150 grams in water and consume within 20 minutes of the injection and keep a glass with another 150 grams handy. If you finish the glass, immediately prepare another until the insulin has cleared the blood.
Again a reminder of the high risk involved with insulin. It can make you a life-long diabetic and in the worst case, it can kill you. I strongly advise against the use of insulin compounds. Should you not heed my warning, follow the protocol to the letter. One slip could mean your life.
18/07/2018 7:38 am
quote:
This is not as easily solved as with steroids, where production eventually bounces back. Warning number 1 : Insulin use can, and in the long run will, make you a life-time diabetic. Keep that in mind before you decide that insulin might be for you.
Ask Big Cat to document this.
18/07/2018 8:16 am
I just sent him an e-mail...lets see what he can come up with. I myself have never seen any evidence that exogenous insulin affects the pancreas in anyway, and I know you have not either... I read that you can become a life-long diabetic many times however with no studies given to back it.
Topic starter
18/07/2018 9:03 am
Nandi-
Tell me if I am reading this correctly. This seems to indicate, through different mechanisms that exogenous insulin administration does not cause the pancreas to stop producing insulin- it may be a stretch.
Hyperglycemia alone does not inhibit secretin-induced pancreatic bicarbonate secretion.
Simon T, Marcus A, Royce CL, Chao F, Mendez T, Fink AS.
Atlanta Veteran Affairs Medical Center, and Department of Surgery, Emory University, Georgia 30033, USA.
Administration of exogenous insulin (INS) inhibits secretin-stimulated pancreatic bicarbonate (HCO3) output via a dose-dependent, neurally mediated mechanism. To determine whether this effect was due to systemic hyperinsulinemia or to reduced endogenous insulin production, we examined the effect of hyperglycemia on secretin-stimulated pancreatic secretion. Chronic pancreatic fistulae were created in six dogs. After 30 minutes of equilibration, a computer-assisted hyperglycemic clamp protocol was used to maintain glucose (GLU) levels 100 or 150 mg/dL above basal in clamp animals; control animals received volume- and rate-matched infusions of 0.9% saline. One hour after beginning the clamp period, intravenous secretin dose-response (16-125 ng/kg/h) was begun, doubling the dose every half hour. Unstimulated (0-30 minutes) HCO3, GLU, and INS levels did not differ between groups. INS and GLU levels in clamp animals were significantly elevated during clamp (30-90 minutes) and stimulated (90-210 minutes) periods. For the same periods, HCO3 secretion was not significantly changed despite profound hyperinsulinemia. We conclude that systemic hyperinsulinemia alone does not inhibit secretin-stimulated HCO3 output. Since exogenous INS exerts feedback regulation on the pancreas, we propose that suppression of endogenous INS secretion mediates the previously reported inhibitory responsel
18/07/2018 9:37 am
Remember that the pancreas is both an endocrine gland that secretes insulin and an exocrine gland that secretes digestive enzymes. These researchers were looking at the feedback inhibition by insulin on the exocrine secretion of digestive enzymes, a controversial topic.
It has been pretty well established that in normal humans insulin inhibits its own secretion via some sort of negative feedback mechanism; exactly how ( chemical, neural ) seems to be the point of contention. In obese people a lot of research has shown this feedback inhibition is blunted, probably contributing to the development of type 2 diabetes. Aging seems to blunt negative feedback as well.
Topic starter
18/07/2018 10:26 am
I totally missed that one Nandi, thanks.
Some more items for an interesting discussion:
What are everyone's opinions on the 4 day on 3 day off theory? Some info says to never take insulin more than that- even if you workout more than that. Also, some information states that one should not take it any longer than 4 weeks at a time.
Opinions?
18/07/2018 11:26 am
The reason I have seen people give for the 4 week deal is because of the chance of becoming a life long diabetic, but as nandi pointed out there may not be any studies that support this! If slin cannot make you a life long diabetic, it is a very very useful tool!
18/07/2018 12:19 pm
I also have never been convinced that injecting insulin can cause diabetes. When I did my research on it I noted that many experienced users had injected it continuously for months at a time without problems.
I personally did so for about 12 weeks. I was training about 4 days per week and usually just used it post workout - 10 ius of humulin R. Occasionally I would shoot before breakfast or before training and then sip a carb drink through the workout.
I never had any problems. However, I didn't refrigerate the insulin bottle so it may have lost potency at some point.
I must have misunderstood the first post in the thread. As I read it, he is claiming I would limit my carb intake to .5 grams x (200 / 25) = 5 grams per day while injecting humalog 4 times per day at 10 ius per shot?!!? That sounds like a good way to commit suicide. I'm very sleepy and must have missed something.
Topic starter
18/07/2018 1:13 pm
quote:
I must have misunderstood the first post in the thread. As I read it, he is claiming I would limit my carb intake to .5 grams x (200 / 25) = 5 grams per day while injecting humalog 4 times per day at 10 ius per shot?!!? That sounds like a good way to commit suicide. I'm very sleepy and must have missed something.
Wow, someone actually noticed that! That is the claim as I read it as well. I would be interested in hearing more comments on this... that is why I put it up!
18/07/2018 2:07 pm
quote:
I also have never been convinced that injecting insulin can cause diabetes
What makes me particularly skeptical of this claim is the increasing use of insulin in type 2 diabetes early in the course of the disease. These people make their own insulin, but are resistant to its effects. Exogenous insulin early on can reduce the hyperglycemia that contributes to the progression of the disease. The doctors don't seem to worry about any effect of this insulin on the patient's endogenous production.
18/07/2018 3:06 pm
quote:
What makes me particularly skeptical of this claim is the increasing use of insulin in type 2 diabetes early in the course of the disease. These people make their own insulin, but are resistant to its effects. Exogenous insulin early on can reduce the hyperglycemia that contributes to the progression of the disease. The doctors don't seem to worry about any effect of this insulin on the patient's endogenous production.
Are you saying insulin is sometimes used to stop the progression of type 2 diabetes?
I read in the newspapers a while ago about a woman who became diabetic and was put on insulin.Apparently type 2 since she lost some weight and changed her eating habits and could stop the insulin.
Is there any chance in developing anti-bodies to the exo-insulin?
18/07/2018 5:33 pm
On a related note,
I've been using lots of maltodextrin in some of my bulking cycles and have gotten extremely good results.Minimal fat gain and very full apearance and generally progressing fast.
Since my appetite is lousy I've and I have a hard time eating whole foods I've been using up to 800 grams of maltodextrin with 400grams of whey.No doubt this spikes insulin like crazy.
Now,my question is;would using exo-insulin sort of "spare" my own pancreas from working too hard?Helping to clear the glucose without being strained too much.I mean,refined carbs is bad for your insulin sensitivity and is said to be a reason for the type 2 diabetes seen in the west.
Dave Palumbo also had a theory of using insulin with GH to "spare" your pancreas due to the GH induced insulin resistance and actually lessening the chance of type 2 diabetes.
Any thoughts?
Page 1 / 2
Next