The liver can't convert more than 3 iu's at a time?

hmm, worth looking into although i would not automatically assume something to be true simply because redbaron posts it!

jb

do a search under growth hormone (which should pull up alot of threads!!)....in the past we have debated this quite a bit. generally it was found dividing the dose over a 24 hour period worked better at raising igf-1 compared to 1 shot per day. 1 shot per day on the other hand was not any better then 1 shot everyother day, so discrepancies will always exist. I have used gh quite a bit in the past and noticed a small difference between once daily vs 2x daily shots, with the latter being better. i think dosage is more important, at least for size as opposed to fatloss (less is needed)...for size i would reccomend no less than 4 iu per day. i always used 6 iu/day

Re: HGH : The liver can't convert more than 3 iu's at a time?

Posted by: Pinnacle

There has been debate over this topic.Some claim injecting more than 3 iu's at one time is a waste.And in order for it to be effective,keep your dose at/or under 3 iu's.

Here's what one guy had to say....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaron

There is certainly a limited capacity for the liver with respect to conversion of HGH into growth factors (IGF-1 and other GH fractions) during a given period of time. That limit for the vast majority seems to be about 3 IU's at any given time.

End Quote:

So in fact this is true.How do the pro's dose their HGH in respect to the higher doses they are (supposedly) to take?Say an individual is running 15 iu's ED,would he then split the dose over 5 shots?

~Pinnacle~

really there is no conversion from hgh to igf,hgh stimulated the formation of igf, is different thing.
hgh does not transform in IGF-1 and IGF-2 they are encoded by two different genes which are expressed differentially in different tissues and at different times of development. i add a graphic to show it (from preforms).
Both types of IGF are synthesized in many fetal and adult tissues. IGF-1 is produced constitutively in large amounts in the liver. It is produced also locally in many other tissues including kidney, heart, lung, fat tissues, and various glandular tissues. IGF-1 is produced also by chondroblasts, fibroblasts, and osteoclasts.

Re: HGH : The liver can't convert more than 3 iu's at a time? Just because something sounds logical doesn't make it true. HGH increases IGF-1 but it doesn't convert into it. The general rule of thumb for BB purposes is 4 iu ed. Some ppl have to push it back because of side effects, some are able to use more.

Posted by: Pinnacle

There has been debate over this topic.Some claim injecting more than 3 iu's at one time is a waste.And in order for it to be effective,keep your dose at/or under 3 iu's.

Here's what one guy had to say....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaron

There is certainly a limited capacity for the liver with respect to conversion of HGH into growth factors (IGF-1 and other GH fractions) during a given period of time. That limit for the vast majority seems to be about 3 IU's at any given time.

End Quote:

So in fact this is true.How do the pro's dose their HGH in respect to the higher doses they are (supposedly) to take?Say an individual is running 15 iu's ED,would he then split the dose over 5 shots?

~Pinnacle~

Posted by: kml0331

do a search under growth hormone (which should pull up alot of threads!!)....in the past we have debated this quite a bit. generally it was found dividing the dose over a 24 hour period worked better at raising igf-1 compared to 1 shot per day. 1 shot per day on the other hand was not any better then 1 shot everyother day, so discrepancies will always exist. I have used gh quite a bit in the past and noticed a small difference between once daily vs 2x daily shots, with the latter being better. i think dosage is more important, at least for size as opposed to fatloss (less is needed)...for size i would reccomend no less than 4 iu per day. i always used 6 iu/day

Thanks for your input!Appreciate it.

I'm very educated as to HGH usage.I've been running it for years(6-10 iu's ED depending on drugs used at the time).Been through a zillion debates on it as well.

My question was/is after a single shot of HGH over 3 iu's can the liver fully utilize it.Redbaron posts this constantly on the board he hangs on,and it has begun to take as gospil without him ever posting a clinical study to back his claim.I usuqally run 5 iu's AM/5 iu's early aftrernoon.He claims that's a poor protocol.

Does my response help you understand where I'm coming from now?

~Pinnacle~

Re: Re: HGH : The liver can't convert more than 3 iu's at a time?

Posted by: oswaldosalcedo

really there is no conversion from hgh to igf,hgh stimulated the formation of igf, is different thing.
hgh does not transform in IGF-1 and IGF-2 they are encoded by two different genes which are expressed differentially in different tissues and at different times of development. i add a graphic to show it (from preforms).
Both types of IGF are synthesized in many fetal and adult tissues. IGF-1 is produced constitutively in large amounts in the liver. It is produced also locally in many other tissues including kidney, heart, lung, fat tissues, and various glandular tissues. IGF-1 is produced also by chondroblasts, fibroblasts, and osteoclasts.

Hi Ossie...great to see ya!

So RedBarons claims is Brotelligence at it's worst?

The liver can utilized taking in a single dose over 3 iu's at a time?Am I reading that correctly?

~Pinnacle~

Re: Re: Re: HGH : The liver can't convert more than 3 iu's at a time?

Posted by: Pinnacle

Hi Ossie...great to see ya!

So RedBarons claims is Brotelligence at it's worst?

The liver can utilized taking in a single dose over 3 iu's at a time?Am I reading that correctly?

~Pinnacle~

of course, the liver and the body.

some people just repeat phrases like parrots.

just folklore culture ...lol........................

Re: Re: Re: Re: HGH : The liver can't convert more than 3 iu's at a time?

Posted by: oswaldosalcedo

some people just repeat phrases like parrots.

Ahhh YES!..The infamous thread parrots....LMFAO

~Pinnacle~

Posted by: Pinnacle

.Redbaron posts this constantly on the board he hangs on,and it has begun to take as gospil without him ever posting a clinical study to back his claim.

~Pinnacle~

People like that are dangerous, with respect to science and education, they think the more they reiterate their concepts the more it becomes a reality, regardless of the truth.

Regarding the 3 iu cutoff, their will always be variablity from 1 person to the next. Overall, if you are going to use higher dose GH per day it is best in my opinion to divide the dosage. whether 10ius a day is too much i can't answer that. Do an experiment on yourself. try 6 iu/ day divided as 3 iu am and 3 iu pm for a few weeks and see if you notice a difference compared to 10iu/day divided as 5 and 5....

One issue that is clear is as you increase the dosage side effects increase, like carpal tunnel, water retention, etc. good luck

Posted by: kml0331

People like that are dangerous, with respect to science and education, they think the more they reiterate their concepts the more it becomes a reality, regardless of the truth.

Regarding the 3 iu cutoff, their will always be variablity from 1 person to the next. Overall, if you are going to use higher dose GH per day it is best in my opinion to divide the dosage. whether 10ius a day is too much i can't answer that. Do an experiment on yourself. try 6 iu/ day divided as 3 iu am and 3 iu pm for a few weeks and see if you notice a difference compared to 10iu/day divided as 5 and 5....

One issue that is clear is as you increase the dosage side effects increase, like carpal tunnel, water retention, etc. good luck

of course is better 4x4 or 3x3 anyway,but not limiting.

Well...is the question (phrased differently) actually:

"Can the liver not keep up (release) with an injection of more than 3iu of GH at a time?"

In other words, if we looked at response of IGF release from the liver, to 3, 4, or 5iu of GH, would it be the same?

Is that what we are (kind of) asking here?

Hi Tony-

You worded it differently,but yes,that is the question( in question).

~Pinnacle~

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Nov;85(11):4193-200. Related Articles, Links

The effect of four weeks of supraphysiological growth hormone administration on the insulin-like growth factor axis in women and men. GH-2000 Study Group.

Dall R, Longobardi S, Ehrnborg C, Keay N, Rosen T, Jorgensen JO, Cuneo RC, Boroujerdi MA, Cittadini A, Napoli R, Christiansen JS, Bengtsson BA, Sacca L, Baxter RC, Basset EE, Sonksen PH.

Department of Medicine M Endocrinology and Diabetes, Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus, Denmark. [email protected]

Measurements of serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) and related markers are routinely used in the diagnosis and treatment of GH deficiency and excess. The validity of these markers for assessment of exogenous GH exposure in healthy adults is, however, unknown. We therefore conducted a double blind, placebo-controlled GH treatment trial in 99 healthy subjects [49 women and 50 men; mean +/- SE age, 25.6+/-0.6 (women)/25.7+/-0.6 yr (men)]. Blood was collected weekly during a 4-week treatment period (days 1-28), and the subjects were subsequently followed for additional 8 weeks (days 29-84). The treatment arms included: I) 0.1 IU/kg x day GH (n = 30; GH 0.1), II) 0.2 IU/kg x day GH (n = 29; GH 0.2), and III) placebo (n = 40). At baseline no gender-specific differences existed, except that the acid-labile subunit (ALS) levels were higher in females. Serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels in males receiving GH increased significantly through day 42 with no significant difference between the 2 doses. The absolute IGF-I response was significantly lower in females, and there was a clear dose-response relationship. ALS levels in males increased through day 30 (P < 0.001). In females ALS levels were only modestly increased on day 28 compared with those in the placebo group (P < 0.02). IGF-binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) levels in males increased significantly in the GH 0.1 and the GH 0.2 groups on day 30 (P < 0.03), whereas no solid IGFBP-3 increase was detected in females. IGFBP-2 levels decreased insignificantly during GH exposure in both genders. A gender-specific upper normal range for each analyte was arbitrarily defined as 4 SD above the mean level at baseline. On the basis of IGF-I levels alone, GH exposure in the GH 0.2 group was detected in 86% of the males and in 50% of the females on day 21. On day 42 GH exposure was only weakly detectable in males and was not detectable in females. We conclude that 1) males are significantly more responsive than females to exogenous GH; 2) the increase in IGF-I is more robust compared with those in IGFBP-3 and ALS; 3) IGFBP-2 changes very little during GH treatment; and 4) among IGF-related substances, IGF-I is the most specific marker of supraphysiological GH exposure.

"Serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels in males receiving GH increased significantly through day 42 with no significant difference between the 2 doses."

This will lend some credence to redbarron's statement. Indeed there seems to be a leveling off, with respect to GH's dose response relationship to hepatic IGF-1