subcutaneous strategy

Keep this going im about to start the same thing. And I have no answers for you

theres always a decent layer of fat on the buttocks, & less pain receptors so easier pinning. Using the same injection site is OK unless you are using insulin (can cause lypodystrophy of the fat cells which can affect absorption)

i used to walk the inject sites like a clock aorund my navel, 12, 6, 3, 9 o'clock.

What dose are you using and what results?????

I've rotated sites much like jb said. The back of the tris work well for some too. How long have you been on these and what are results?

I mainly use it for the health effects (great sleep, well being, etc) but noticed that I can workout harder and longer too, which is great.
I've only been using it for a week now so I can't judge it by far (I'm already surprised I notice anything this early), yet I already think it's worth it for the sleep and well being effects.
I currently pin once a day (just before bedtime) 300mcg CJC1295 and 125mcg GHRP-6. I'll run that for a while and will then probably switch to 200mcg CJC1295 and 250mcg GHRP-6 once a day (bedtime).
I also take some Huperzine A (100mcg) every other day - don't know if it makes a difference, but it sure won't hurt - and the added focus/alertness I get from it is good for work situations.

I'll keep you updated on the results here (keep in mind I'm not the bodybuilding type, yet do alot of strength and endurance workouts).

Back of the tris could work too, the only problem is I self inject, so don't know how I could pinch some skin and inject both with 1 hand.
I like the clock around the navel idea, guess I'll go with that.
Anyone else who pinched through a vein/blood vessel while doing subq, and more importantly knows how to avoid this? (45 degree angle instead of 90?)
I got quite a lump just afterward, which is gone now (a day later), but I now have a bruise with a 3 to 4 cm diameter (1.1-1.6 inch)

Posted by: Pieterv

I mainly use it for the health effects (great sleep, well being, etc) but noticed that I can workout harder and longer too, which is great.
I've only been using it for a week now so I can't judge it by far (I'm already surprised I notice anything this early), yet I already think it's worth it for the sleep and well being effects.
I currently pin once a day (just before bedtime) 300mcg CJC1295 and 125mcg GHRP-6. I'll run that for a while and will then probably switch to 200mcg CJC1295 and 250mcg GHRP-6 once a day (bedtime).
I also take some Huperzine A (100mcg) every other day - don't know if it makes a difference, but it sure won't hurt - and the added focus/alertness I get from it is good for work situations.

I'll keep you updated on the results here (keep in mind I'm not the bodybuilding type, yet do alot of strength and endurance workouts).

Back of the tris could work too, the only problem is I self inject, so don't know how I could pinch some skin and inject both with 1 hand.
I like the clock around the navel idea, guess I'll go with that.
Anyone else who pinched through a vein/blood vessel while doing subq, and more importantly knows how to avoid this? (45 degree angle instead of 90?)
I got quite a lump just afterward, which is gone now (a day later), but I now have a bruise with a 3 to 4 cm diameter (1.1-1.6 inch)

As far as the sub Q shots I do like jb suggested but I also pin my quads (which are very lean). It only has to be sub q, not in a bed of fatty tissue.

Bliter where are you getting your information from. What you say goes agaisnt alll that Ive read about the stuff

Bilter, I've read quite some sources stating it the other way around: take a modest dose GHRP-6 (100mcg being the saturation dose, another 100mcg being only 50% effective, another 100mcg being only 25% effective) together with 100mcg or more of CJC.

I just checked and the saturation dose of GHRH (CJC) is indeed also defined as 100mcg. Might maybe switch things up a little then.

Eitherhow with CJC/GHRP multiple doses are indeed more effective than higher single doses

Posted by DatBtru @ PM

n the topic of GHRP-6 dosing [Here is the range]

Assuming that your GHRP-6 (or any of the GHRPs (i.e. GHRP-2, Hexarelin...) is of the same quality as that used in the studies then 100mcg is enough.

The saturation dose was determined to be 100mcg. So the studies that use GHRP-6 for the most part used either 100mcg or 1mcg/100kg of bodyweight. Consequently most of the GH release numbers for GHRP-6 that we discussed in this thread came from studies on humans dosing 100mcg at a time.

However it has been determined in a few studies, particularly the ones using Hexarelin as the GHRP that the highest dosing after which there is no effect is somewhat variable among people and could be 200mcg to 400mcg.

On the otherhand there has been demonstrated synergy in GH (growth hormone) release between GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone) and GHRP-2 (growth hormone releasing peptides) at the following dose: 100mcg GHRH + 30mcg GHRP-2

On the topic of dosing GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone) (of which CJC-1295 is a long-lasting analog)

Plenty of studies have tested the effect on GH (growth hormone) release of just GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone) alone. Although not every study used the same dosage by and large the saturation dose was determined to be 100mcg or I could simply say that they determined to use 100mcg of GHRH.

A single administration of GHRH of 100mcg elevated GH levels above baseline. This elevation lasted a few hours (despite a GHRH half-life of about 10 minutes). The elevation was not as large as that achieved by GHRPs (growth hormone releasing peptides i.e. GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin...)

Therefore taking 100mcg of CJC-1295 (a long lasting GHRH) should create an elevation of GH.

There is far more variability in GH release results across study participants when just GHRH is the hormone administered then there is when just GHRPs (GHRP-6. GHRP-2, Hexarelin...) are administered. Those release profiles evoke consist predictable results.

On the topic of dosing GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone) (of which CJC-1295 is a long-lasting analog) and GHRPs (growth hormone releasing peptides) (i.e. GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin)

GHRPs (GHRP-6...) need the presence of GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone) to work. For almost every one of us this is not a problem because we produce GHRH naturally and this is sufficient for GHRPs to work.

Although both GHRPs (GHRP-6...) and GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone of which CJC-1295 is a long lasting analog) are capable & do effect GH (growth hormone) release when administered by themselves there is synergy in GH release when the two are taken together.

This was discovered many years ago and has become well established. The dosing used in many of these studies is 100mcg of GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone) and 100mcg of GHRP (GHRP-6...).

Frequency:

Subject to desensitization (hexarelin for example is most subjectto desensitization), this combo can be taken multiple times each day to effect a GH pulse which rises and falls within a 2 hour time frame.

What is enough?

That is subjective because the terms need to be defined. The terms are simply:

Who are you (sex & particularly age ...but also are you obese, do you have diabetes, do you have sleep apnea (if so are you remedying it w/CPAP, etc...)?

What are you trying to accomplish (restoration of youthful levels, little bump in GH, med elevation of GH levels, high levels of GH)?

What effect are hoping for (feel better - requires a little bump, better sleep - requires just a little night time dose, weight loss - requires longer term low-med dose, muscle preservation & tightening of the core - requires low-med dose longer term use, muscle gain - requires a lot more than elevated GH alone (i.e. Testosterone& GH both effect protein synthesis but through different pathways the concurrent use of which may provide synergy, insulin on the other hand inhibits both glucose breakdown in muscle glycogen and inhibits protein breakdown..., etc.)

Only the end user can answer these question and hopefully I have provided enough information in this thread (while both disclosing the basis for my statements and trying to distinguish between what is established and what is my conjecture) so that each individual may be able to determine what is likely to be sufficient.

Anopther by Dat:

A Brief Summary of Dosing and Administration

Dosing GHRPs

The saturation dose in most studies on the GHRPs (GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Ipamorelin & Hexarelin) is defined as either 100mcg or 1mcg/kg.

What that means is that 100mcg will saturate the receptors fully, but if you add another 100mcg to that dose only 50% of that portion will be effective. If you add an additional 100mcg to that dose only about 25% will be effective. Perhaps a final 100mcg might add a little something to GH release but that is it.

So 100mcg is the saturation dose and you could add more up to 300 to 400mcg and get a little more effect.

A 500mcg dose will not be more effective then a 400mcg, perhaps not even more effective then 300mcg.

The additional problems are desensitization & cortisol/prolactin side-effects.
Ipamorelin is about as efficacious as GHRP-6 in causing GH release but even at higher dose (above 100mcg) it does not create prolactin or cortisol.

GHRP-6 at the saturation dose 100mcg does not really increase prolactin & cortisol but may do so slightly at higher doses. This rise is still within the normal range.

GHRP-2 is a little more efficacious then GHRP-6 at causing GH release but at the saturation dose or higher may produce a slight to moderate increase in prolactin & cortisol. This rise is still within the normal range although doses of 200 - 400mcg might make it the high end of the normal range.

Hexarelin is the most efficacious of all of the GHRPs at causing an increase in GH release. However it has the highest potential to also increase cortisol & prolactin. This rise will occur even at the 100mcg saturation dose. This rise will reach the higher levels of what is defined as normal.
Desensitization
GHRP-6 can be used at saturation dose (100mcg) three or four times a day without risk of desensitization.

GHRP-2 probably at saturation dose several times a day will not result in desensitization.

Hexarelin has been shown to bring about desensitization but in a long-term study the pituitary recovered its sensitivity so that there was not long-term loss of sensitivity at saturation dose. However dosing Hexarelin even at 100mcg three times a day will likely lead to some down regulation within 14 days.
If desensitization were to ever occur for any of these GHRPs simply stopping use for several days will remedy this effect.

Chronic use of GHRP-6 at 100mcg dosed several times a day every day will not cause pituitary problems, nor significant prolactin or cortisol problems, nor desensitize.

GHRH

Now Sermorelin, GHRH (1-44) and GRF(1-29) all are basically GHRH and have a short half-life in plasma because of quick cleavage between the 2nd & 3rd amino acid. This is no worry naturally because this hormone is secreted from the hypothalamus and travels a short distance to the underlying anterior pituitary and is not really subject to enzymatic cleavage. The release from the hypothalamus and binding to somatotrophs (pituitary cells) happens quickly.

However when injected into the body it must circulate before finding its way to the pituitary and so within 3 minutes it is already being degraded.

That is why GHRH in the above forms must be dosed high to get an effect.

GHRH analogs

All GHRH analogs swap Alanine at the 2nd position for D-Alanine which makes the peptide resistant to quick cleavage at that position. This means analogs will be more effective when injected at smaller dosing.

The analog tetra or 4 substituted GRF(1-29) sometimes called CJC w/o the DAC or referred to by me as modified GRF(1-29) has other amino acid modifications. They are a glutamine (Gln or Q) at the 8-position, alanine (Ala or A) at the 15-position, and a leucine (Leu or L) at the 27-position.

The alanine at the 8th position enhances bioavailability but the other two amino substitutions are made to enhance the manufacturing process (i.e. create manufacturing stability).

For use in vivo, in humans, the GHRH analog known as CJC w/o the DAC or tetra (4) substituted GRF(1-29) or modified GRF(1-29) is a very effective peptide with a half-life probably 30+ minutes.

That is long enough to be completely effective.

The saturation dose is also defined as 100mcg.

Problem w/ Using any GHRH alone

The problem with using a GHRH even the stronger analogs is that they are only highly effective when somatostatin is low (the GH inhibiting hormone). So if you unluckily administer in a trough (or when a GH pulse is not naturally occurring) you will add very little GH release. If however you luckily administer during a rising wave or GH pulse (somatostatin will not be active at this point) you will add to GH release.

Solution is GHRP + GHRH analog

The solution is simple and highly effective. You administer a GHRH analog with a GHRP. The GHRP creates a pulse of GH. It does this through several mechanisms. One mechanism is the reduction of somatostatin release from the hypothalamus, another is a reduction of somatostatin influence at the pituitary, still another is increased release of GHRH from the brain and finally GHRPs act on the same pituitary cells (somatotrophs) as do GHRHs but use a different mechanism to increase cAMP formation which will further cause GH release from somatotroph stores.

GHRH also has a way of reciprocally reinforcing GHRPs action.

The result is a synergistic GH release.

The GH is not additive it is synergistic. By that I mean:
If GHRH by itself will cause a GH release valued at 2
and GHRP itself will cause a GH release valued at 5

Together the GH is not 7 (5+2) it turns out to say 16!
A solid protocol

A solid protocol would be to use a GHRP + a GHRH analog pre-bed (to support the nightime pulse) and once or twice throughout the day.

For anti-aging, deep restful restorative sleep, the once at night dosing is all you need. For an adult aged 40+ it is enough to restore GH to youthful levels.

However for bodybuilding or fatloss or injury repair multiple dosings can be effective.

The GHRH analog can be used at 100mcg and as high as you want without problems.

The GHRP-6 can always be used at 100mcg w/o problems but a dose of 200mcg will probably be fine as well.

Again desensitization is something to keep an eye on particularly with the highest doses of GHRP-2 and all doses of Hexarelin.
So 100 - 200mcg of GHRP-6 + 100 - 500mcg+ of a GHRH analog taken together will be effective.
This may be dosed several times a day to be highly effective.
A solid approach is a bit more conservative at 100mcg of GHRP-6 + 100mcg of a GHRH analog dosed either once, twice, three or four times a day.
When dosing multiple times a day at least 3 hours should separate the administrations.

The difference is once a day dosing pre-bed will give a youthful restorative amount of GH while multiple dosing and or higher levels will give higher GH & IGF-1 levels when coupled with diet & exercise will lead to muscle gain & fatloss.

Dose w/o food

Administration should ideally be done on either an empty stomach or with only protein in the stomach. Fats & carbs blunt GH release. So administer the peptides and wait about 20 minutes (no more then 30 but no less then 15 minutes) to eat. AT that point the GH pulse has about hit the peak and you can eat what you want.

I'll just add that I have had great results with dosing of 100/200 (CJC/GHRP6). Given that CJC is fairly pricey I have not wanted to experiment with a higher dose. If I were using GHRP 2 or another GHRP besides 6 I would limit that dose to 100mcg also but GHRP is inexpensive and I recon 5mg with 2ml of BW so 200mcg is just a convenient dose to draw.

Here is the link to Dat's work.................... More info here than I could ever hope to absorb
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...sic-guides.html

all this stuff coming out lately about saturation point of CJC contradicts what had been said before in this and other forums...

Supposedly CJC-1295 is(was) very long lasting and could be administered once or twice a week in 2-4mg shots.

omm