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Topic starter
23/08/2019 7:02 pm
Guys, for endurance athletes the use of an estrogen blocker alone is a great cycle. 50 of clomid a day or 20 of Nolvadex will double your T levels and put most men right at the very upper limit of "normal" and some above normal.
Not only that but most importantly your T level WILL NOT drop with hard training and believe me T levels drop and sometimes to very low levels with hard training and this really suck for recovery reasons not to mention sex drive reasons.
With hard and or long aerobic training LESS Testosterone is produced in ALL MEN and some guys get really really low and so low that they loose all sex drive and obviously have sub par recovery abilty. The decrease in testosterone is thought to be due to reduced
GnRH from the hypothalamus. Estrogen blockers actually INCREASE GnRH release BEYOND normal.
Being high normal, or a bit higher, is great for recovery reasons...and you can train hard more frequently and that means getting better faster and to a higher level. You can also sometimes gets a few more points higher in hematocrit.
Estrogen blockers do not shut down your own test production...they increase it...thus you have no HPTA shut down issues at all.
They mimic lutinizing hormone(LH). LH is a hormone that the pituitary releases in response to GnRH(gonadotropin releasing hormone) form the hypothalamus. LH tells the testes to produce testosterone.
This is how it works....
Both estrogen and testosterone(or any androgen like a steroid) have a negative, or shutting down impact, on GnRH release from the hypothalamus. So if the body had adequate levels of T cirulating around then little GnRH is released from the hypothalamus...and then little LH is released from the pituitary and then little testosterone is made by the testes. As mentioned estrogen also has an inhibitory affect on GnRH release.
NOTE: Men get estrogen from testosterone aromatization..conversion of T to e.
So too much testosterone or too much estrogen will shut down testosterone production. Anabolic steroids do the same thing.
In a normally functioning HPTA(hypothalmic, pituitary, testicular axis) testosterone and estrogen levels "level out" and result in what we consider "normal" testosterone and estrogen levels in the body.
Clomid and nolvades BLOCK estrogen at the hypothalamus. This tricks the hypothalamus into thinking that estrogen levels are low and thus it sends out more GnRH.....which stimulates the pituitary to release LH....which stimulates the testes to make more T
As mentioned e blockers do not shut down your testes...they make them MORE active!
Estrogen usually doesn't get out of control from the aromatization of the extra T, because T levels don't get crazy high as they would on injections of 200mg of T or more.
Side affects are minimal to none on these blockers. Long term use of nolvadex has been associated with some increase in liver tumors in women who use this drug LONG TERM post breast cancer.
These blockers have "some" minimal impact on the liver but nothing to worry about unless you take them long term like women who use nolva for years on end after breast cancer.
The are not 17aa coated, like oral steroids, so they are not "hard" on the liver.
Clomid has been know to cause mood swings(tearyness) in some people.
A few get hot flashes and headaches..
The main "concern" with Clomid use long term is slightly blurred vision. SOME body builders have experienced this with their post steroid cycle therapy with Clomid for a month but most have not.
You will probably get one side affect....sight acne on the shoulders and back. This is from the higher T level. Some guys get none.
I get lots actually.
I get no sides at all except for acne.
All you need to do is to take 25-50 mg of Clomid or 10-20 mg of nolvadex a day on an empty stomach for best absorption and you'll increase your natural T production.
I got my T to 1100ng/dl last spring and that is way up from my normal 590....above normal..with 20 of nolvadex a day on an empty stomach first thing in the am.
Most men walking around have a T of about 500-700. With endurance training most men have only 60% of the T of a non endurance athlete...this is a fact!.....and not a few get WAY LOWER than this.
Most "studies" on the T raising properties of these blockers has been done on clomid
Yes these blockers are "banned" in cycling, nordic skiing and running.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6797324?dopt=AbstractPlus
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3119649?dopt=AbstractPlus
Topic starter
23/08/2019 7:37 pm
What effect would adding 50mg Proviron to that?
Proviron is an an androgen that does not aromatize to estrogen.. and it's a very poor anabolic and in fact may not be anabolic at all. It's more like DHT in this way. I would never take the stuff for endurance training/racing. It is used in bodybuilding by a few guys to get that androgen "hard" look.
Notably it works well with Deca. It is used with deca mainly to keep sex drive.
All androgens(and estrogen) have an inhibitory affect on the hypothalmus's release of GnRH.....so the proviron will COUNTER ACT the Clomids GnRH stimulating affect.
Don't use any androgen(roid) or test with Clomid or nolva.
So if you are doing a deca only, tren only or EQ only cycle then 50 of proviron will save your sex drive. But why not just use a little test.
The only reason not to is to keep estrogen lower than with the test.
The estrogen blockers ONLY work if androgen levels are not elevated.
RG
Last edited by Realgains on 04-30-2007 at 12:57 AM
23/08/2019 8:03 pm
Great advice Realgains....but you forgot a very real side effect of Clomid....you bitch, I just can take it any more, I just wanna cry it makes me so upset.....how could you do this to me????
But seriously, folks need to be careful with Clomid IMHO....
50mg of Clomid made me bitchier then hell, found myself suddenly wanting to watch lifetime television, more stressed.
I've taken 100mg of Zoloft for about 10 years now, and while test seems to enhance general well being, Clomid definitly seemed detrimental.....
Folks with issues might want to steer clear of Clomid.
But I did put Ron Jeremy to shame in terms of amount and strength....ewww....but its true
Now 25mg and I get the benefits of loosing the H2O without the side effects. Of course, bros, YMMV, 25mg might not do jack shit for you....
23/08/2019 8:23 pm
Don't use any androgen(roid) or test with Clomid or nolva.
I'm confused, I thought a low dose of Clomid, on cycle, although arguably negating some of your gains, serves to help prevent some symptoms of gyno. like bloat. I know a low dose of Clomid sure helped me loose water weight on cycle.
Topic starter
23/08/2019 8:39 pm
I'm confused, I thought a low dose of Clomid, on cycle, although arguably negating some of your gains, serves to help prevent some symptoms of gyno. like bloat. I know a low dose of Clomid sure helped me loose water weight on cycle.
Clomid will prevent gyno but nolva does it better....but it will be a non issue on such low doses of gear.
NO bro...Clomid or nolva don't do shit for getting ride of estrogen and thus getting rid of water weight. They only BLOCK estrogen at the breat and hypothalamus. ONLY estrogen inhibitors like arimidex do that. Only inhibitors stop the aromataze enzyme from converting T to e. Must have been something else that you were doing that help you loose some water weight.
23/08/2019 8:58 pm
Now let's enter the real world unless you are hypogonal, Clomid and or nolvadex won't do a goddamn thing for adding muscle or increasing strength in bodybuilders...may as well use BORON!!!!!!
liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.
Topic starter
23/08/2019 9:20 pm
Now let's enter the real world unless you are hypogonal, Clomid and or nolvadex won't do a goddamn thing for adding muscle or increasing strength in bodybuilders...may as well use BORON!!!!!!
Good to see you liftsiron.
But a T twice ones normal level is better than nothing my old friend.
I got mine to over 1000ng/dl with nolva 20 a day.
For the "endurance man" it is good as you have a good T, at or above high normal, that doesn't drop with hard aerobic training(which always does that).
But you are right...if you want to pack on serious pounds of beef then is is a waste of time.
Cheers
RG
Topic starter
23/08/2019 9:40 pm
Guys....if you get blurred vision from the Clomid then just stop. It ain't worth messing with your vision. I have not had this problem but it can happen.
23/08/2019 9:59 pm
Good to see you liftsiron.But a T twice ones normal level is better than nothing my old friend.
I got mine to over 1000ng/dl with nolva 20 a day.
For the "endurance man" it is good as you have a good T, at or above high normal, that doesn't drop with hard aerobic training(which always does that).But you are right...if you want to pack on serious pounds of beef then is is a waste of time.
Cheers
RG
I was on the road all weekend didn't realize that my post sounded a little harsh, I was speaking in terms of the serious bodybuilder only that needs the slabs of beef. Although many don't realize that on long duration cycles that adding 30 days of either nola or Clomid will boost most beyond sticking points. My apology for wording my last post like an ass. Great to see you agin.
liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.
23/08/2019 10:28 pm
RG,
Any thoughts on HCG alone to get T levels up to the high end of normal? WOuld that be more effective than Clomid alone?
Dr. Chrisler is giving a talk on Sermorelin at the A4M National convention in December so he isnt giving out a bunch of Information before then.
Topic starter
23/08/2019 10:51 pm
RG,
Any thoughts on HCG alone to get T levels up to the high end of normal? WOuld that be more effective than Clomid alone?
HCH mimics LH from the pituitary...telling the testes to work!
Yes, it can really hammer the testosterone up and more so than Clomid or nolva alone for sure...but you have to be careful with the stuff>>>>
250-500IU of HCG per day is a max dose. Bigger doses stimulate testicular aromatase too much, and that raises estrogen levels and thus water retention and weight. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH and that will screw up the response of the testes to natural LH...so when you go off the stuff your testes don't respond well to LH for a while.
23/08/2019 11:13 pm
Folks with issues might want to steer clear of Clomid.
Clomid makes me depressed as hell... not like suicidal but really down and no energy to be social...
Topic starter
23/08/2019 11:44 pm
Clomid makes me depressed as hell... not like suicidal but really down and no energy to be social...
Some guys have emotion issues with Clomid this is true....but Nolva seems to be different even though they are chemically fairly close structure.
Nolva will work just as good as Clomid as an only agent or post testosterone or roid cycle. It's surely stronger mg for mg.
RG
24/08/2019 12:12 am
From what I've read, I've thought Clomid competes for estrogen receptor sites. Binds to the receptors and prevent the real estrogen from binding there. This would reduce estrogen related issues like bloat and gyno.
Clomid doesnt get rid of the estrogen floating around but prevents the effects from most of it. Of course, the estrogen is still there though.
I'm not arguing that Arimidex isnt vastly superior for bloating, but I'm not sure I'm convinced Clomid does nothing for estrogen symptoms (i.e. excess water in fat tissue, gyno., etc).
Of course, on the internet, there is lots of conflicting information, on all aspects of AAS.
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