keto carb up question

i did a CKD style keto diet 2 springs ago... i was very strict during the week but after my friday workout, i'd have a protein only shake, then from dinner friday until whenever i went to bed on saturday i'd eat WHATEVER i wanted. i didnt' count protein/fat/carbs at all. i lost a LOT of fat during that time. dropped 30 lbs on the scale while actually putting on a significatnt amount of muscle; but it was during my first cycle :biglaugh: (probably could ahve lost more if i didnt' go hog-wild during my carb up, but shit... i'd have gone crazy otherwise)

No, it won't screw up the diet, especially if you keep the carb-up to only 24 hours. Think about it this way: you need to eat 3,500+ calories above maintenance over that day to gain a single pound of fat, and that isn't counting the thermal effects of food. By the way, why can't you handle the carb-load? Are you trying to drink maltodextrin shakes every two hours? You said you can handle the low fat, but you mention wanting to eat pizza? I've done carb-ups in every way imaginable, and nowadays I simply have a very large shake post the depletion workout, then I eat boxes of Fruit Loops with skim milk every two hours, and then move onto solid foods like rice, apple sauce, low-fat pancakes, etc. I try to keep fats as low as possible, because when insulin levels are spiked high, fat intake will be stored as fat. That's why eating pizza and ice cream is not optimal.

yeah i usually can handle the low fat part. pizza was just an example if I wanted to have something bad, that I wanted to be able to. the part that was hard for me was the types of carbs recommended, and certain types of sugars only (dextrose, sucrose) and not other kinds. The specifics and the timing makes the carb up not a relief at all, which for it to keep me sane it has to be somewhat of a relief. In the book it is VERY specific about the types of carbs at what particular times, it is just a very arduous task.

BG: I hear you about the strictness in Bodyopus. When I was doing my first keto diets, I followed it to a "T". Then I read some of Lyle's work, and he mentioned that maybe you didn't have to be so strict. So I started testing myself with various routines. One thing I found is that the depletion workout didn't really make much difference to me personally. I got the same good carb-up whether I did it or not. So now I tend to just do a normal workout right before the carb up instead of beating myself into the ground. I also noticed that you could be a LOT less strict with the carbs. I eat a lot of fructose, and I eat a lot of sweet cereal, even when I'm into the 36-48 hour part. None of it made any noticeable difference. The one thing that did was when I went nuts on donuts -- I think the fat intake did me in. But as long as you are sticking mainly to carbs, go ahead and relax. The carb-up is the best part. I get to eat stuff I normally never eat, even when I bulk (I try to bulk relatively clean).

when im doing the keto thing i use the "carbup" as an all out glutton fest. i eat ANYTHING i craved during the week. it helped keep me sane and strict during the week b/c i knew that come saturday i'd get to enjoy all the things i missed during the week. shit when i was doing it, i remember one of my "carbups" was a night out to olive garden... i ate 12 breadsticks, 2.5 of those big bowls of salad and a whole dinner size portion of fetticini alfredo and i probably drank 2-3 pitchers of tea. i was a machine that night lol... my girl got embarrassed b/c she was finished eating and had to sit there for anohter hour while i kept pounding it down. the look on the waiters face was priceless. i dont' think he'd ever seen someone eat so much at one sitting. gained 8lbs that weekend, lol. figured i'd add... by the following tuesday i was back down by 8lbs. so it was all water.

48 hour carb up? Ive found what works best is to train friday morning, then have the protein shake + 80 - 100gms dextrose and try and split the rest of the carbs over the next day and half - finishing on Saturday night 36 hours. I think you can eat basically what you want without have to worry to much about storing fat as long as its spread out to an extent. I think if you just hogged down over a 24hour period and ate everything in sight there may be an issue of fat storage and it may negate the purpose of CKD in the first place.

I used BodyOpus strictly and found results of the carb up less effective than a carb binge on the CKD. The eating every 2 hours screwed me up, waking up just to drink calories inhibited my gains more than eating the same amount of calories over waking hours. I prfer a 30hr carb up, 6am sat till noon on sunday.

are from a strict load. Yes I prefer a shorter load where I can eat whatever I want. I've done the load all different ways and there are two things that I noticed most: 1)A 36 hr load is a must in order to supercomp the muscles full of glycogen, and 2)a 24 hr load will be sufficient for most people. Now to the people that can eat whatever they want w/o gaining any fat back on the load for 48 hrs. I'm actually fucking envious! You probably don't need this strict of a diet. If I ate fucking fruit loops w/milk every meal for two days I wouldn't make progress and it wouldn't be worth it. I usually recommend doing the depletion on Saturday morning, then loading until Sunday night. This works well for most people. The depletion workout is necessary for most people, some can get away w/o it. Again, lucky bastards!

Originally posted by frique are from a strict load. Yes I prefer a shorter load where I can eat whatever I want. I've done the load all different ways and there are two things that I noticed most: 1)A 36 hr load is a must in order to supercomp the muscles full of glycogen, and 2)a 24 hr load will be sufficient for most people. Now to the people that can eat whatever they want w/o gaining any fat back on the load for 48 hrs. I'm actually fucking envious! You probably don't need this strict of a diet. If I ate fucking fruit loops w/milk every meal for two days I wouldn't make progress and it wouldn't be worth it. I usually recommend doing the depletion on Saturday morning, then loading until Sunday night. This works well for most people. The depletion workout is necessary for most people, some can get away w/o it. Again, lucky bastards! thanks for responding frique

Have you ever tried dieting w/out restricting carbs? I have only really dieted once. I figured out my clories, started with the regular 55% protein, 30% carb, 15% fat. If i lost one to two pounds/week I left it alone and when i stopped losing I would just eliminate like 50g of carbs. I lost 17lbs and went from 16% to 8.5% in 14 weeks. I did cardio 3x/week (rode the bike for 30min). Someone on the board did the math for me once and I didnt lose much muscle at all. I think like 3.5lbs.

Originally posted by Pinz Have you ever tried dieting w/out restricting carbs? I have only really dieted once. I figured out my clories, started with the regular 55% protein, 30% carb, 15% fat. If i lost one to two pounds/week I left it alone and when i stopped losing I would just eliminate like 50g of carbs. I lost 17lbs and went from 16% to 8.5% in 14 weeks. I did cardio 3x/week (rode the bike for 30min). Someone on the board did the math for me once and I didnt lose much muscle at all. I think like 3.5lbs. well right now I am on close to 33% of all nutrients diet, which is described as the isocaloric diet in bodyopus. I am not superstrict, but this is what I shoot for. I eat 7 times a day, and have carbs on the 1st (bfast), 3rd(lunch), and post workout (usually 6th or 7th, dependent on work), the other meals are either chicken, natty peanut butter, or nectars protein powder, all fairly low or non-existent in carbs. I have just switched to this, as the higher carb dieting has ceased to work over the past 4 weeks. It worked well for 2 months, now I will move on to this. I barely eat below maintenance calories, as I have not much to lose, so I am just looking for that little tweak which will spike me. I barely due cardio at all, I would rather control weight loss with diet as much as possible. By doing this I feel like I can control muscle catabolism better. I am asking questions about Keto because after the isocaloric diet stops working, the next step (if I decide to continue with the diet) is keto. Thanks. BG

Good deal. What is your BF at now? I liked doing the cardio; it made a huge difference in the amount of energy i had. The lower my BF got and the better my cardio vascular endurance got, the better I felt. Good luck

Originally posted by Pinz Good deal. What is your BF at now? I liked doing the cardio; it made a huge difference in the amount of energy i had. The lower my BF got and the better my cardio vascular endurance got, the better I felt. Good luck Well, I am not really sure, as I dont test it, I just go by the mirror. Abs are visible (but not super hard) and veins are starting to creep out in shoulders, chest, & thighs (already in arms). I am guessing right now about 10-12%. If I got down to 8% that would be as low as I would want to go. Yeah I love the way cardio makes me feel, but it makes me drop weight too fast. My situation usually has to make me choose weights or cardio. So I choose weights. I work for a CPA firm (long hours) and my wife is in NYC until April. That means I have to take care of everything at our new house on top of working and lifting. If one thing needs to get left behind, it will always be cardio.

Congrats on the new house bro. Are you still using any dairy products in your diet? When I hit around 11% I eliminated the all dairy and it had a big impact on my look(made my skin look thinner). It seems that for some reason dairy makes people hold water sub-q. If you eliminate it you may look harder w/in the next week or two.