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03/05/2019 12:57 pm
None taken
But if you look at those links you'll find plenty of peer reviewd scientific references supporting this view. Not trying to convince you though just adding my 2 cents.
Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)
03/05/2019 1:52 pm
even if a "clear causal" link has not been establish, there is a preponderance of statistical correlation between elevated cholesterol and CVH to make a wise person ignore it at their peril. That is like saying there is no clear causal link between smoking and cancer.
jb
03/05/2019 2:47 pm
There is also a preponderance of statistical correlation between police being present at crime scenes, that doesn't mean they cause crime.
For smoking a very clear causal relationship has been established so not the same.
Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)
03/05/2019 3:36 pm
None taken. But if you look at those links you'll find plenty of peer reviewd scientific references supporting this view.
Come on, IMHO some of those articles are classic examples of disservice to anyone reading them and specially for people like us here at CEM.
Jesus Christ, look at that title: "More Saturated Fat = Less Coronary Artery Disease!" .
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/05/2019 4:16 pm
Like I said: not trying to convince you just adding a different point of view. If you agree: great, if you don't: great also.
As for the article you are referring to, you're entitled to your opinion, but IMO it's silly to make up your mind based on a title.
A title which is, I might add, practically word for word the same as the conclusion of the researchers themselves.
Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)
03/05/2019 4:49 pm
Like I said: not trying to convince you just adding a different point of view. If you agree: great, if you don't: great also.As for the article you are referring to, you're entitled to your opinion, but IMO it's silly to make up your mind based on a title.
A title which is, I might add, practically word for word the same as the conclusion of the researchers themselves
Now you must be kidding right? Are you saying that I didn't read the article?IMO it's a waste of time that kind of conversation, hope you've been involved in research enough time to sustain you statements with plausible ideas based in real word as well.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/05/2019 5:40 pm
And by the way, keep on consuming high saturated fats, I'm sure you'll be doing fine in the next 20 years.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/05/2019 6:24 pm
Also, it's not a good ideia trying to extrapolate that kind of data from females subjects to males, specially for people like some of us who are involved with serious strength training, high competitive sports, and with peformance enhancement substances.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/05/2019 6:56 pm
No I didn't say you didn't read the article, I implied that you made up your mind based on the title, because you said:
Jesus Christ, look at that title: "More Saturated Fat = Less Coronary Artery Disease!"
quote:
hope you've been involved in research enough time to sustain you statements with plausible ideas based in real word as well.
What exactly isn't real world about clinical studies?
quote:
And by the way, keep on consuming high saturated fats, I'm sure you'll be doing fine in the next 20 years.
I will and we'll see in 20 years I guess
quote:
Also, it's not a good ideia trying to extrapolate data from females subjects to males, specially for people like some of us who are involved with serious strength training, high competitive sports etc. and with enhancement substances.
Don't worry, I'm not. There are many more references supporting the view that animal fat doesn't cause atherosclerosis.
The only reason we're only talking about this one article is because you had some beef with the title, to which I responded.
Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)
03/05/2019 7:45 pm
Do you really think that someone who writes things like "...next time you hear some misguided fanatic wailing on about the evils of saturated fat, run--straight to the nearest tub of butter!" should be taken serious?
Seems that consuming butter is great for overall health, huh?
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/05/2019 8:26 pm
What exactly isn't real world about clinical studies?
We need long term studies (aka: longitudinal and cohort).
That kind of study in which patients who presently have a certain condition and/or receive a particular treatment are followed over time and compared with another group who are not affected by the condition under investigation.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/05/2019 8:59 pm
Wheter or not I take someone seriously depends on how well they can back their statements with solid research not on the way they write.
quote:
We need long term studies (aka: longitudinal and cohort).
You mean like:
1. Leosdottir M, et al. Dietary fat intake and early mortality patterns - data from The Malmo Diet and Cancer Study. Journal of Internal Medicine, 2005; 258: 153-165.
2. Paul O, et al. A longitudinal study of coronary heart disease. Circulation, Jul 1963; 28: 20-31.
3. Gordon T. The Framingham Diet Study: diet and the regulation of serum cholesterol. In: The Framingham Study: An Epidemiological Investigation of Cardiovascular Disease, Section 24. U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., 1970.
4. Medalie JH, et al. Five-year myocardial infarction incidence. II. Association of single variables to age and birthplace. Journal of Chronic Diseases, Jun, 1973; 26 (6): 325-349.
5. Morris JN, et al. Diet and heart: a postscript. British Medical Journal, 1977; 2: 1307-1314.
6. Yano K, et al. Dietary intake and the risk of coronary heart disease in Japanese men living in Hawaii. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Jul, 1978; 31: 1270-1279.
7. Garcia-Palmieri MR, et al. Relationship of dietary intake to subsequent coronary heart disease incidence: The Puerto Rico Heart Health Program. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Aug, 1980; 33 (8): 1818-1827.
8. Gordon T, et al. Diet and its relation to coronary heart disease in three populations. Circulation, Mar, 1981; 63; 500-515.
9. Shekelle RB, et al. Diet, serum cholesterol, and death from coronary heart disease: the Western Electric Study. New England Journal of Medicine, 1981; 304: 65-70.
10. McGee DL, et al. Ten-year incidence of coronary heart disease in the Honolulu Heart Program: relationship to nutrient intake. American Journal of Epidemiology, 1984; 119: 667-676.
11. Kromhout D, de Lezenne Coulander C. Diet, prevalence and 10-year mortality from coronary heart disease in 871 middle-aged men: the Zutphen Study. American Journal of Epidemiology, 1984; 119: 733-741.
12. Kushi LH, et al. Diet and 20-year mortality from coronary heart disease: the Ireland-Boston Diet-Heart Study. New England Journal of Medicine, 1985; 312: 811-818.
13. Lapidus L, et al. Dietary habits in relation to incidence of cardiovascular disease and death in women: a 12-year follow-up of participants in the population study of women in Gothenburg, Sweden. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Oct, 1986; 44 (4): 444-448.
14. Khaw KT, Barrett-Connor E. Dietary fiber and reduced ischemic heart disease mortality rates in men and women: a 12-year prospective study. American Journal of Epidemiology, Dec, 1987; 126 (6): 1093-1102.
15. Farchi G, et al. Diet and 20-y mortality in two rural population groups of middle-aged men in Italy. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Nov, 1989; 50 (5): 1095-1103.
16. Posner BM, et al. Dietary lipid predictors of coronary heart disease in men: the Framingham Study. Archives of Internal Medicine, 1991; 151: 1181-1187.
17. Dolecek TA. Epidemiological evidence of relationships between dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and mortality in the multiple risk factor intervention trial. Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine, Jun, 1992; 200 (2): 177-182.
18. Fehily AM, et al. Diet and incident ischaemic heart disease: the Caerphilly Study. British Journal of Nutrition, 1993; 69: 303-314.
19. Goldbourt U, et al. Factors predictive of long-term coronary heart disease mortality among 10,059 male Israeli civil servants and municipal employees: a 23-year mortality follow-up in the Israeli Ischemic Heart Disease Study. Cardiology, 1993; 82: 100-121.
20. Esrey KL, et al. Relationship between dietary intake and coronary heart disease mortality: Lipid Research Clinics Prevalence Follow-Up Study. Journal of Clinical Epidemiology, Feb, 1996; 49 (2): 211-216.
21. Ascherio A, et al. Dietary fat and risk of coronary heart disease in men: cohort follow up study in the United States. British Medical Journal, 1996; 313: 84-90.
22. Pietinen P, et al. Intake of fatty acids and risk of coronary heart disease in a cohort of Finnish men: the Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta-Carotene Cancer Prevention Study. American Journal of Epidemiology, 1997; 145: 876-887.
23. Hu FB, et al. Dietary fat intake and the risk of coronary heart disease in women. New England Journal of Medicine, Nov 20, 1997; 337 (21): 1491-1499.
24. Tanasescu M, et al. Dietary fat and cholesterol and the risk of cardiovascular disease among women with type 2 diabetes. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Jun, 2004; 79: 999-1005.
25. Laaksonen DE, et al. Prediction of cardiovascular mortality in middle-aged men by dietary and serum linoleic and polyunsaturated fatty acids. Archives of Internal Medicine, 2005; 165: 193-199.
26. Tucker KL, et al. The Combination of High Fruit and Vegetable and Low Saturated Fat Intakes Is More Protective against Mortality in Aging Men than Is Either Alone: The Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging. Journal of Nutrition, Mar, 2005; 135: 556-561.
Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)
03/05/2019 9:42 pm
So consuming butter doens't seem to hurt.
Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)
03/05/2019 10:33 pm
So consuming butter doens't seem to hurt.
It does not open!
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
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