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03/09/2018 10:42 am
Another scientific paper corraborating that soy protein can help us achieve an ultimate physique. GuiJr.
Does it matter if you get your protein from soy or beef? By G. Gregory Haff, PhD, CSCS.
Recently, researchers from Kansas State University and the University of Arkansas investigated the effects of protein type on resistance training performance and lipoproteins. Twenty one men with a mean age of 65±5 years participated as subjects in this investigation. All subject were initially placed in a two week baseline diet which required them to eat 0.6 g of protein/kg per day from a soy based texturized vegetable protein food.
After the initial two week diet period 11 men continued eating the soy based diet, while 10 men consumed 0.6 g of protein/kg per day from beef. All subjects performed resistance training three days per week over the course of the 12 week dietary intervention.
After the completion of the study there were no significant differences between the two diets in the overall muscular strength and power of the subjects. The beef group did experience significant increases in total cholesterol, low density lipoproteins (LDL) and high density lipoproteins (HDL), while the group that consumed the soy products did not experience any significant alterations. Additionally, the beef group had significantly higher cholesterol than the soy group.
Based upon this study it appears that the type of protein consumed does not significantly impact the strength gains noted from a resistance training regime in older adults. Conversely, it appears that older adults with a diet which gets the majority of its dietary protein from beef results in significant elevations in cholesterol and low density lipoproteins, which both have been indicated to be risk factors for cardiovascular disease.
Haub MD, Wells AM, and Campbell WW. Beef and soy-based food supplements differentially affect serum lipoprotein-lipid profiles because of changes in carbohydrate intake and novel nutrient intake ratios in older men who resistance-train. Metabolism: Clinical and Experimental. 2005; 54:769-744.
Haub MD, Wells AM, Campbell WW. Beef and soy-based food supplements differentially affect serum lipoprotein-lipid profiles because of changes in carbohydrate intake and novel nutrient intake ratios in older men who resistive-train. Metabolism - Clinical and Experimental. 2005;54:769-744.
ABSTRACT
OBJECTIVE: We examined if the predominant source of dietary protein influenced the lipoprotein-lipid profile in older men who performed resistive exercise training (RT).
DESIGN: This is a 14-week, randomized, repeated-measures study with a 12-week period of RT with supplementation of different sources of dietary protein (beef and soy).
SETTING: Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, Central Arkansas Veteran's Healthcare System, North Little Rock, Ark. Subjects Twenty-six healthy men were recruited, and 21 men (age 65 +/- 5 years, body mass index 28.2 +/- 2.6 kg/m 2 ) completed the study. Interventions For 14 weeks, all men were counseled to self-select a lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet. For 2 weeks (baseline), all men also consumed 0.6 g-protein/kg per day from portioned quantities of soy-based texturized vegetable protein foods. For the next 12 weeks, 11 men were randomized to continue with texturized vegetable protein foods (VEG group), whereas 10 men were randomized to receive 0.6 g-protein/kg per day from portioned quantities of beef (BEEF group) and continue their otherwise lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet. All men participated in RT 3 d/wk during this 12-week period. Assessments of upper and lower body muscle strength and power, serum lipoprotein-lipid profile, and dietary nutrient intakes were made at baseline and week 12 of RT (POST).
RESULTS: The BEEF and VEG groups increased ( P < .05) overall muscle strength and muscle power with RT, with no differences between groups. From baseline to POST, the BEEF group had increased concentrations of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol ( P = .025; HDL-C), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol ( P = .027; LDL-C), and total cholesterol ( P = .015: CHOL), with no changes ( P > .05) in triacylglycerol (TG), the CHOL/HDL-C ratio, or the TG/HDL-C ratio. The VEG group did not experience within-group changes ( P > .05) in any lipoprotein-lipid parameter. At POST, the concentrations of HDL-C, LDL-C, and CHOL were greater in the BEEF group compared with the VEG group. There were significant interaction effects for HDL-C ( P = .004) and the TG/HDL-C ratio ( P = .022). Multiple regression analysis determined that, regardless of intervention, change in the saturated fat/fiber ratio (SF/fiber) predicted CHOL (adjusted R 2 = 0.34); the SF/fiber ratio predicted LDL-C (adjusted R 2 = 0.36); the cholesterol/fiber intake ratio predicted HDL-C (adjusted R 2 = 0.26), and the change in carbohydrate intake predicted the CHOL/HDL-C ratio (adjusted R 2 = 0.37) and TG (adjusted R 2 = 0.44).
CONCLUSIONS: These results suggest that the lipoprotein-lipid profile in these older men was differentially affected by supplementation with beef versus soy-based foods during RT. Regardless of group, the lipoprotein-lipid changes were predicted by differences in the SF/fiber ratio and cholesterol/fiber ratio and increases in carbohydrate intake over time.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/09/2018 11:14 am
this is by the same author of a study i posted a while ago demonstarting equal efficacy between soy and beef in muscle building in older men. I think this study just confirms what we all know, if you consume a protein source high in sat fat, your lipid profile will suffer. Once again, we have to conclude that a healthy diet of low sat fat sources of protein and energy are the way to go.
good post!
jb
Topic starter
03/09/2018 12:13 pm
You bet Jboldman, here is the link of your post "Effect of protein source on resistive-training-induced changes in body composition and muscle size in older men"
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/09/2018 12:46 pm
First off both groups were consuming inadaquate protein to properly build muscle. The study doesn't touch on the increase in phytoestrogens that most men experience on a soy based diet not does it mention lowered thyroid function that is most often the result of a high soy diet. Was the beef used in the study of the leanest quality or of the high fat variety? Also while the amino acid profile looks great on paper, most people have a very hard time digesting soy products.
liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.
Topic starter
03/09/2018 1:24 pm
First off both groups were consuming inadaquate protein to properly build muscle.
Yeah, maybe next time why not increase the amount to 1.6–1.8 g protein/kg/body mass/d and see what happens, on the other hand as we know when protein intake from red meat is increased fat intake will be increased as well. Likewise, a substantial proportion of the high fat intake in older adults is a consequence of the protein consumption. The selection of leaner sources of protein and increased intake of fish would at the same time decrease fat intake while allowing consumption of more grain, vegetable, fruit and non-fat dairy products within the same total energy intake (Foote JA, Giuliano AR, Harris RB. Older adults need guidance to meet nutritional recommendations. J Am Coll Nutr. 2000;19(5):628-40).
Besides that, there is a concern on the safety and adequate protein intake (protein allowance) of elderly people as we can read here.
The study doesn't touch on the increase in phytoestrogens that most men experience on a soy based diet not does it mention lowered thyroid function that is most often the result of a high soy diet.
Could you show us some peer-reviewed data on that statement?
Also while the amino acid profile looks great on paper, most people have a very hard time digesting soy products.
We need data on that as well.
"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.
03/09/2018 1:56 pm
New Findings May Support Soy-Dementia in Men
August 9, 2003 - Ian Williams Goddard
In April 2000, Lon White and others reported a dose-dependent positive correlation between tofu consumption and brain atrophy in a large sample of men over several decades. [1] While correlation does not prove causation, study size and duration along with the robust dose-dependent relationship caused me, even as a vegetarian, to avoid tofu and other soy products.
Correlation-based hypotheses should be tested against the availability of possible causal mechanisms. In addition to possible causal mechanisms previously cited by this author, [2] recent findings significantly increase the case for a causal mechanism of soy-induced brain atrophy.
Atrophic Pharmacology Indicated
Brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) facilitates the survival and genesis of brain cells. [3,4] The neuroprotective effects of caloric restriction are attributed in part to increased BDNF. [5] On the other hand, reduced BDNF is known to cause brain-cell atrophy and is associated with Alzheimer’s disease. [6,7] Now, a study in "Neuroscience Letters" reports that soy significantly reduced BDNF in the hippocampus and cerebral cortex of male rats. [8] Since reduced BDNF can cause neural atrophy, these findings appear to provide compelling evidence for a causal mechanism that might explain the positive correlation between tofu (soy) consumption and brain atrophy reported by White et al. [1]
Bad For Boys, Good For Girls?
While soy appears to reduce BDNF in male rats, it has also been shown to increase BDNF in female rats. [9] In fact, soy appears to affect neurological parameters in a sex-defined fashion wherein females benefit and males suffer. [10-13] There is little doubt among researchers that this is because soy is high in phytoestrogens, which are plant-derived substances that act like the female hormone estrogen.
However, that sex-defined difference fails to explain the findings regarding the wives of male subjects in White et al., who reported: "A similar association of midlife tofu intake with poor late life cognitive test scores was also observed among wives of cohort members, using the husband’s answers to food frequency questions as proxy for the wife’s consumption." [1] White et al. proposed that long-term consumption of weaker soy estrogens may displace the body’s own stronger estrogen along with its benefits.
Evidence Against Soy-Dementia Hypothesis?
A possible signal contrary to a soy-dementia link is the low prevalence of dementia [14] and high consumption of soy in Okinawa, Japan. [15] However, that negative correlation, like any correlation, does not prove causation. For example, perhaps soy does cause dementia but other factors in Okinawa offset the effect.
Also, White et al. explored correlations of a range of foods to neurological parameters, whereas this Okinawa analysis is a sweeping generalization of only tofu to all of Okinawa. In other words, it stands to reason that the study by White et al. finding a positive tofu-dementia correlation has the greater likelihood of providing the more accurate picture. Nevertheless, in my view this Okinawa data warrants further examination as a possible route to falsifying the soy-dementia hypotheses.
In closing, the findings of soy-induced BDNF reduction in male rat brain regions that are central to the onset of dementia, in addition to previous findings, [2] appear to provide compelling evidence of a possible causal mechanism that might explain the soy-dementia correlation reported by White et al. [1] Obviously further research is necessary before a clear picture emerges regarding the effects of long-term soy consumption on the brain. But in the meantime, my inclination is to play it safe and avoid soy.
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References
White et al.: "In this population, higher midlife tofu consumption was independently associated with indicators of cognitive impairment and brain atrophy in late life."
Goddard (scroll to): "Is There Reason to Believe Tofu May Cause Brain Atrophy?"
Korte M: "Neurotrophic factors have long been known to promote neuronal survival and differentiation."
J Neurochem (Sep 2002): "These findings suggest that BDNF plays an important role in the regulation of the basal level of neurogenesis in dentate gyrus of adult mice [...]."
Endocrinology (Jun 2003): "Recent studies have shown that DR [dietary restriction] stimulates the production of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) in brain cells, which may mediate neuroprotective and neurogenic actions of DR."
Arch Gen Psychiatry (Jul 1997): "stress can decrease the expression of brain-derived neurotrophic factor and lead to atrophy of these same populations of stress-vulnerable hippocampal neurons."
Brain Res Mol Brain Res (Oct 3, 1997): "a reduction in BDNF mRNA expression has been observed in human post-mortem Alzheimer’s disease hippocampi. [...] These results support and extend previous findings that BDNF mRNA is reduced in the human Alzheimer’s disease hippocampus and temporal cortex, and suggest that loss of BDNF may contribute to the progressive atrophy of neurons in Alzheimer’s disease."
Neurosci Lett (Feb 27, 2003): "significant reductions were found in brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) mRNA expression in the CA3 and CA4 region of the hippocampus and in the cerebral cortex in the [male] rats fed the diet containing phytoestrogens, compared with those on the soya-free diet."
Neurosci Lett (Feb 1999): "soy phytoestrogens significantly increased the mRNA levels of BDNF [...in] female rats."
Neurotoxicol Teratol (Jan-Feb 2002): "when learning and memory parameters were examined in a radial arm maze testing visual-spatial memory (VSM), the diet treatments significantly changed the typical sexually dimorphic pattern of VSM. Specifically, adult Phyto-rich fed females outperformed Phyto-free fed females, while in males on the same diets, the opposite pattern of maze performance was observed."
BMC Neurosci (2001 2(1):20): "Female rats receiving lifelong exposure to a high-phytoestrogen containing diet (Phyto-600) acquired the maze faster than females fed a phytoestrogen-free diet (Phyto-free); in males the opposite diet effect was identified. [...] These findings suggest that dietary soy derived phytoestrogens can influence learning and memory and alter the expression of proteins involved in neural protection and inflammation in rats."
BMC Neurosis (2001 2(1):21): "When a diet change was initiated in adulthood, control phytoestrogen-rich fed females outperformed control females switched to a phytoestrogen-free diet. Whereas, in control males the opposite diet effect was identified."
Neurosci Lett (May 15, 2003): "This study is the first to show that lifelong consumption of dietary phytoestrogens alters the HPA stress response in male rats."
Dementia Rates in Okinawa vs Japan & US.
Soy Phytochemical Intake in Okinawa.
liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.
03/09/2018 3:29 pm
I think as posted above, that unless you are a vegetarian exclusively using soy products for an extended period of time (years) that it probably is not an issue. Likewise, if you depended on a daily protein consumption from red meat, you would most likely be at the same or higher risk for the obvious reasons, increased cholesterol, increased sat fat consumption, et al. This is once again the basis for some of our most favored truisms. "all things in moderation" and geting your protein from a variety of sources including red meat, chicken, fish, whey, and if you choose, soy.
jb