Short Steroid Cycles

I have extensive experience with short cycles. I had two long threads at Anabolic Extreme, which unfortunately were lost. MuscleTrainee has a 10pg thread, though, which covers them extensively - I've got some relevant posts there.

Here is one study showing the time course of suppression:

J Investig Med 1997 Oct;45(8):441-7

Testosterone suppression of the HPT axis.

MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.

Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.

BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic-anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing Testosterone Cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose dependent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.

BLADE! welcome! I have read some of your stuff on short cycles.
Hope to hear more from ya on this thread.
Now if we could only get Roberts and Montana to come on board!

RG

i have alwasy liked 8-10 weekers, but i will soon be entering probation, and every month ill get a test/epitesterone check, so im thinking 2 on 2 off, ill use suspension, tren, winny, halo, Dbol, and Anadrol. Of course not all in one cycle tho

I like this concept, and I think I have been training long enough to understand how I grow naturally. {For me anyway, the simpler exercises I use at a quicker pace (40s-1min rest supersets) are composed of exercises like deadlifts, squats, split squats, bench, simple dbell work etc, at very heavy weight and moderate reps. I train every other day, and just divide it into upper and lower sessions. For those exercises, after I plateau for bit, I change grip and use a different variation (ex. Romanian deadlift vs. Supinated or snatch lift, etc.)}

So, I am a little younger, and have not quite reached genetic potential. Despite the fact that I should not use AAS regardless, would gaining naturally after doing a short cycle be possible, ie. could I make gains like I am now, after a short cycle? I understand there may be a short period of no progress, but would it pick up again eventually? I wouldn't do massive amounts of AAS either, just enough to experiement and avoid any kind of estrogen excess so as not to damage my height or growing progress.

Thanks guys

Posted by: polski_69

I like this concept, and I think I have been training long enough to understand how I grow naturally. {For me anyway, the simpler exercises I use at a quicker pace (40s-1min rest supersets) are composed of exercises like deadlifts, squats, split squats, bench, simple dbell work etc, at very heavy weight and moderate reps. I train every other day, and just divide it into upper and lower sessions. For those exercises, after I plateau for bit, I change grip and use a different variation (ex. Romanian deadlift vs. Supinated or snatch lift, etc.)}

So, I am a little younger, and have not quite reached genetic potential. Despite the fact that I should not use AAS regardless, would gaining naturally after doing a short cycle be possible, ie. could I make gains like I am now, after a short cycle? I understand there may be a short period of no progress, but would it pick up again eventually? I wouldn't do massive amounts of AAS either, just enough to experiement and avoid any kind of estrogen excess so as not to damage my height or growing progress.

Thanks guys

Yes you will gain naturally after doing a short cycle, UNLESS you hit your true natural limit during the cycle...but even if your natural peak has been reached, in SIZE, your sttength can still go up a fair bit and for many years to come. Most men don't peak in strength until they are in their 30's and some a ltittle older than that.

If you are very young then avoid steroids or the high androgen levels, and not just high estrogen, will close your growth plates in your long bones and you will never grow an inch again!
Some men grow until they are 21!

RG

ok, so what would be a good, low-androgen cycle, that will yield good results, as well as not friggin destroy my liver, nor make me bald (ie. nothing too harsh)

Posted by: polski_69

ok, so what would be a good, low-androgen cycle, that will yield good results, as well as not friggin destroy my liver, nor make me bald (ie. nothing too harsh)

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Personally I think it best to do highly androgenic gear with a short cycle...stuff like tren, D-bol, Test Prop etc.

Duration "on' is a more important factor when considering sides.

If you have the genetics for hair loss then you will loose hair with any steroid except MAYBE nandrolone...but you will loose little in two weeks is any at all.

You don't need the 17aa orals but they won't hurt you even at high dose for 2-3 weeks. D-bol is so damn effective its hard to give it up for a short cycle.

Tren And test are not hard on the liver really, unless you run them both for a very long time...so test/tren makes for a good short cycle stack.

RG

I agree - I always base my cycles around Test and Tren (when available and affordable - it's expensive and hard to get where I live). I frontload Propionate at 500-600mg on day 1, then 200-250mg days 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10. Tren at 50-75mg ed days 1-13.

Dbol is good, and so is Winstrol - although I'd save W for cycles where you're lifting heavy loads. I'm using a HST template, so I'll do my first cycle of Test/Tren and maybe Dbol at the higher reps microcycles, then add Winstrol (or substitute for Dbol) on my second cycle during the 5 rep phase. As long as it's short-acting you can get away with it, which pretty much limits it to propionate/acetate ester stuff and orals.

Posted by: iced

i have alwasy liked 8-10 weekers, but i will soon be entering probation, and every month ill get a test/epitesterone check, so im thinking 2 on 2 off, ill use suspension, tren, winny, halo, dbol, and anadrol. Of course not all in one cycle tho

Iced....what'd you get nailed for? They SUALLY don't run "AS" tests for probation!

I understand that using a high androgen would be ideal, but in my case it certainly won't! I want to avoid an excess conversions to estrogen, so I need to use a low-androgenic compound. Basically, I am still growing- so I figure if I use a short cycle, based on low-androgenic drugs, I can avoid stunting it. Please provide me with a good idea for a 3 week long cycle, as well as post secondary. Thanks guys, please help me out!!

Posted by: polski_69

I understand that using a high androgen would be ideal, but in my case it certainly won't! I want to avoid an excess conversions to estrogen, so I need to use a low-androgenic compound. Basically, I am still growing- so I figure if I use a short cycle, based on low-androgenic drugs, I can avoid stunting it. Please provide me with a good idea for a 3 week long cycle, as well as post secondary. Thanks guys, please help me out!!

First of all bro there are highly androgenic steroids that DO NOT aromatize to estrogen...ie: tren and anadrol.

Second...ANY androgen is going to close your growth plates if you are still growing and that includes the weak androgens nandrolone and primo.
I wouldn't even use a fast acting, weak androgens like oral primo or anavar for 2-3 weeks if I were you...too risky!

Shit bro is you are that young you have plenty of testosterone and GH in your system so why not just take advantage of that and train naturally....don't read those glossy Weider mags because the routines in them are for the genetically gifted on roids. Go to http://www.elitefitness.com /" target="_blank" rel="noopener">www.elitefitness.com and read my Sticky post on "proper steroid free training" on the womens forum.

Bro listen to what I have said as it is helping you out a lot.

RG Last edited by Realgains on 02-05-2003 at 11:23 PM

Posted by: DRveejay11

Iced....what'd you get nailed for? They SUALLY don't run "AS" tests for probation!

im not 100% sure on this, but if its AAS related, i was under the impression they ran a test/epitesterone test every month along with the rec drugs.

Okay...

This is going to be like holding a lighter for a crackhead...but what the fuck.

If your just going to be given a T/E ratio test, with no subsequent tests for metabolites, all you need to do is heavilly adminsiter epi prior to the test to restore a normal ratio for a short period of time.

A good test, checks for Epi admin as well...but just a T/E won't be looking for epi use.

How do you administer epi? Eat a few of your chicks birth controll pills.

There you have it.

thats it? so if i take her birth control(ortho trycyclin) say a few days prior i should be good to go? BTW, in laymens terms, what the hell is epitesterone anyway?

Another comment....

Guys you certainly could extend these short cycles to 4 weeks as this is still just short enough to avoid many of the negatives of steroids. Your HPTA recovery would be slower but still pretty good as well.

I don't get much in the way of acne until after week 4 and then wham
Also, although you are going to have a lipid profile shift almost immediately it doesn't usually get really bad, at least with me, until week 4 or so.

From Blades abstract we have learned that the hypothalamus is completely inhibited by two weeks and thus the pituitary doesn't put out LH and the testes don't then produce testosterone BUT the pituitary itself takes a longer time to become unresponsive to potential LHRH stimulation from the hypthalamus....and longer than I thought. The pituitary is kind of waiting and saying , come on Hypothalamus give me some LHRH so I can give the boys some LH for test output.
SO....after a cycle of 4 weeks or less the pituitary is still sensitive to LHRH release from the hypothalamus...in essence it hasn't grown tired of asking for LHRH and has not gone to bed yet, even though its not putting out LH. SO...when it senses LHRH from the hypothalamus it will respond fairly well and let the LH fly!

Now if the nuts have not shrunk much , and they won't in 4 weeks, then they will be able to respond well to LH.

I know from personal experience that the pituitary reponds VERY RAPIDLY with secreation of LH after a 14 day cycle, and test rebound is very fast and actually over compensates a bit.

One of the problems with HPTA recovery comes from long cycles that shrink the nuts. If the nuts are small they just cannot respond well to LH from the pituitary and test rebound is slow.
So if you are on a long cycle of 8 weeks or more it makes good sence to use some HCG at 3-500iu's/day sub Q in the lower belly fat for two weeks BEFORE the cycle ends in order to get the nuts up to size.

Good Luck and I hope all this is making sence.

RG