newbie 2nd cycle, sustanon and deca 6 week cycle? please help

This is a very good size and strength cycle. I don't know why he said to go only 6 weeks with it. I liked your 1st cycle much better. The D-bol for 4 weeks is fine, I even go 6 weeks and up the dosage a little more, but this is your second cycle. You are running what they call a "jump start" compound (sustanon) and a front load compound with d-bol. I would stay with your original cycle but replace the sustanon after 6 weeks with some test c. You can leave it at 500mg's a week, and it should kick in by the time the sustanon leaves your body. Deca, is a relativley safe compound with both good anabolic and androgenic properties. You can use it safely for 12 weeks, if you can up to 400mg's that would be ok. It looks like you have your ancillaries well lined out. I would go with the A-dex, as it counteracts both bloating and gyno. As far as you losing some weight, you are right at the borderline. Losing 10 lbs wouldn't hurt first, but at 5'7" 169lbs isn't that bad where you couldn't go ahead with the cycle, as long as you are in half way decent muscular shape. You can use HCG if you want to keep your testis from shrinking and this will help you recover better after your cycle, but your body will recover with clomid as a pct.

How old are you and how long have you been lifting?

What do you mean in your original post, sustanton tabs?

hey thanks very much for your reply. i thought it'd take a while for someone to get back at me with my post

well i guess my trainer thinks of the first proposed cycle to be of a competitor's cycle, and said that i am already big at 170lbs at the momment. he doesnt want to complicate things with my system i guess.

you said that deca is good for size and strength, wont deca also be for cutting and leaning out? im new here but i read somewhere here that deca is also used for cutting?

about A-dex as u've mentioned, should i use it as a replacement to arimidex or nolvadex? or both? confused sorry. and do i take the A-dex along with the HCG throughout the weeks of my cycle?

thanks alot !

Posted by: nosecrusher

This is a very good size and strength cycle. I don't know why he said to go only 6 weeks with it. I liked your 1st cycle much better. The D-bol for 4 weeks is fine, I even go 6 weeks and up the dosage a little more, but this is your second cycle. You are running what they call a "jump start" compound (sustanon) and a front load compound with d-bol. I would stay with your original cycle but replace the sustanon after 6 weeks with some test c. You can leave it at 500mg's a week, and it should kick in by the time the sustanon leaves your body. Deca, is a relativley safe compound with both good anabolic and androgenic properties. You can use it safely for 12 weeks, if you can up to 400mg's that would be ok. It looks like you have your ancillaries well lined out. I would go with the A-dex, as it counteracts both bloating and gyno. As far as you losing some weight, you are right at the borderline. Losing 10 lbs wouldn't hurt first, but at 5'7" 169lbs isn't that bad where you couldn't go ahead with the cycle, as long as you are in half way decent muscular shape. You can use HCG if you want to keep your testis from shrinking and this will help you recover better after your cycle, but your body will recover with clomid as a pct.

kim doug had a couple of important questions. Don't be sensitive with this, but your age and experience has a lot to do with the determination of a cycle. You are doing less than 1 gram a week of AAS total, so I really am not concerned with your amount. My 1st cycle was d-bol and primo-test. I never heard of 5 mg sustanon tabs. Did you do anything else with them? Did you attain any muscle.
A-dex is arimidex and should be used instead of Nolvadex, because it does more. I never had a problem with my first 5 years of AAS use with estrogen. Only until I started increasing dosages did I have to be concerned, but everyone is different. You may be very prone to gyno. You will find out on this cycle. Deca, can be used for hardening up your muscles and also makes you strong. It does hold water though, which a-dex should control. Deca would not be considered a pre-contest compound to lose weight and increase vascularity. It is to androgenic. It does increase fat loss with good nutrition and good hard training. Yes, you do take the a-dex with the HCG during your cycle. As far as it being a competitors cycle. You are taking less than 1 gram a week total and only taking 2 compounds after your done with the d-bol. If you feel more comfortable, my 1st cycle was 8 weeks, so I would at least go that long.

oh yeah im twenty three, turning 24, been regular in a gym since i was 18, been lifting regularly with supersets and basic/compound since 20, but ive never really reached my full potential even with including cardio during my workouts.

the sustanon tabs i got from my trainer, which he got from his source. they were small pink tabs which was 5 mg each, then when i searched online they looked like dianabol tabs, but my trainer said otherwise, that it was infact sustanon tabs, packahged in pakistan.

thanks alot for the info, ill run it over him and maybe an 8 weeker is better! thanks!

Posted by: silverskitle

hey thanks very much for your reply. i thought it'd take a while for someone to get back at me with my post

well i guess my trainer thinks of the first proposed cycle to be of a competitor's cycle, and said that i am already big at 170lbs at the momment. he doesnt want to complicate things with my system i guess.

you said that deca is good for size and strength, wont deca also be for cutting and leaning out? im new here but i read somewhere here that deca is also used for cutting?

about A-dex as u've mentioned, should i use it as a replacement to arimidex or nolvadex? or both? confused sorry. and do i take the A-dex along with the HCG throughout the weeks of my cycle?

thanks alot !

BRO YOU ARE VERY INEXPERIENCED AND NEED TO RESEARCH MORE ON YOUR OWN AS WELL.JUST ASKING QUESTIONS AND GETTING ANSWERS FROM MEMBERS IS NOT ENOUGH.IF DOING A SHORT 8 WEEK CYCLE THEN DECA IS NOT A GOOD CHOICE.IF IT WERE ME I WOULD DO SOME SORT OF TEST LIKE PROP OR SUS AND AN ORAL FOR 5 WEEKS THATS IT.YOUR TOO INEXPERIENCED FOR TREN YET IN MY OPINION AS WELL SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT BUT THINK YOU SHOULD GET SOME MORE EXP UNDER YOUR BELT FIRST.LEARN ABOUT THE COMPOUNDS YOU ARE TAKING AND WHAT EFFECT THEY HAVE ON YOUR SYSTEM.LEARN ABOUT PROPER PCT.THATS THE PROBLEM THESE DAYS GUYS GET BAD ADVISE, DO AAS AND END UP LEARNING THE HARD WAY.BUT IF THEY WOULD OF TOOK THE TIME TO JUST LEARN THEY WOULD BE LEAPS AND BOUNDS AHEAD

sounds like your trainer is a toolbox...get rid of him...

I have to agree with 69. It's obvious you need to read more and do some research. Also, your trainer is not well versed and there are not 5mg Sust Tabs. He, like many trainers out there, was looking to unload something and a make a quick buck and doesn't care what happens.

Deca is NOT a good choice when cutting b/c it packs on mass, NOT lean mass. It lso causes alot of bloat. There are much better choices out there for when you're going to cut. Something like a Test/tbol cycle would be good for your second cycle. More isn't better.

What dictates how you look is your diet and not so much what you run. You said your bf% is 20%. That is entirely wayyyyyyyyyyyy to high to benefit you whatsoever. You should never get that high and the fatter you're bulking the larger amount of fat you'll put on during your cycle. Drop the bf% down before you start anything. You should be below 15% imho and never get that high when you cycle.

yeah, i've read and been reading what i could online about it everyday, there arent too many you could find, but i have. these forums, i believe are more educational than reading a pile of texts that'd eventually burn you out. i've read sources online but still, its like a puzzle to me thats why im asking here in the forums. besides, i havent bought any of it yet, just asking around. want to make sure i get the right stuff.

i dont believe im in any way stupid to not understand the the whole scientific process of AAS, but its just that science wasnt my favorite subject. but anyways, if you could give me links to sites about the compounds and stuff for my learning, i'd appreciate it. thanks

[quote= I never heard of 5 mg sust250'>sustanon tabs. Did you do anything else with them? Did you attain any muscle..

yes i did gain, i gained muscle all over including my legs which never really grew till now. these sustanon tabs put me up to around 173-175 lbs while during the cycle; i was 155lbs before i started it. so roughly 20 pounds added.i was also taking ON's Serious mass while at it, im sure it helped with my weight gain. i bloated up though, i still have that muscle but my belly and waist line got bigger. i guess i have to burn this out first with alot of cardio before starting on another according to da_fonz? wont i loose significant muscle because of cardio?

No one here is calling you stupid. Maybe the trainer.... It is overwhelming at first, because you just want to do it and get going.

Start with this:
http://www.xtraxxl.com/steroid_profiles/

specifically read up on testosterone and it's different esters, proprionate, enanthate, cypianate, sustanton, etc. That is the base of all cycles. Without test during a cycle, your body will stop producing because what you take is good enough to fool it's regulation mechanism, but not good enough to do all the good things that test does to make you healthy, happy and horny (which is important!).

Since it seems your trainer put you on dianabol, might as well read about that too. Notice specifically the ability to aromatize. Both dbol and test do it and it's something that you will have to counter, so read about Nolvadex, aromasin and arimidex. You will want one of the latter two to counter the aromatization of excess test into estrogen. Excess estrogen will bloat you and kill your sex drive.

Read up on tbol (turanabol). Notice that it doesn not aromatize, so you will not bloat up on it.

Then read this sticky about how to come off. It will consist of arimidex or aromasin, HCG throughout the entire cycle and clomid.

HCG fully explained

The low down on anti-e's as posted By visions

Understanding Post Cycle Therapy Better....

and finally,

Newly Updated Recommendations--- HCG & PCT

With that said, the test @ say 300-500mg/wk and tbol as Fonz suggested would be a real simple cycle that will work well and not have bad side effects. You need to decide what ester test you want to run. If you are wanting to keep your cycle short, use proprionate and shot eod. It will kick in quick. You can run it for as little as 8 weeks, and really run tbol all the way through if you want, but more conventionally for 4 weeks to kick start things. Orals are much faster, but tax your liver. 40-50mg/day would work.

Lastly, know that by taking something that either your trainer did not know or did not care what it was coupled witht the fact that you did not either, you took unnecessary and unknown risks. Your trainer probably did not know how to have you come off correctly so that you would recover quickly.

Good luck.

Yes, don't be intimidated. I know it looks that way with the "not so positive" critiques from the mods. They just want you to get it right and for you to get more educated on the compounds and how they react. Every bb'er has learned what works for him or her best through trial and error, which can also be called experience. What works great for one, may not work great for you. I know you never mentioned Tren, he must of just misread your post. Tren should only be considered with years under your belt. This isn't rocket science silverskitle. You learn most of it through research plus the experience of using the compounds. There are pretty good books out there covering a lot of things. I have the ANABOLICS 6TH EDITION 2007. You can find this on ebay cheap. You can also google any compound you want to know and read up about. I agree as I mentioned, losing some weight first would help a lot. As kim doug just gave you, this is a simple cycle and I would also recommend running it 8 weeks. This can be a first cycle choice for you easily or any other beginner. It is good you didn't buy anything yet either.

Posted by: silverskitle

yes i did gain, i gained muscle all over including my legs which never really grew till now. these sustanon tabs put me up to around 173-175 lbs while during the cycle; i was 155lbs before i started it. so roughly 20 pounds added.i was also taking ON's Serious mass while at it, im sure it helped with my weight gain. i bloated up though, i still have that muscle but my belly and waist line got bigger. i guess i have to burn this out first with alot of cardio before starting on another according to da_fonz? wont i loose significant muscle because of cardio?

Sorry, I didn't see this post. I do cardio throughout my entire cycle. You will not lose lbm by cardio, as long as you are training hard also. Cardio will get you to lose the fat! Yes, it does sound like you got d-bol from your trainer. You did 15mg's a day, which isn't that much. What you mostly gained though was water and when you got off you didn't use any PCT and you lost a lot of what muscle you did gain and it did turn into fat. I was in a different situation with my 1st cycle. I was tall and thin with 6-7%BF.

been an online book-worm the past few days, thanks for the related links Kim doug. ive learned through the readings, however its like pandoras box the more you know the more questions pop up.

im at the HCG fully explianed page right now, and it says...

..."The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as already mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum."

is it as simple as that? just administer it counting from the 4th-5th day of your started cycle, then Only use it for a maximum of 4 weeks? ...

..." Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle."...

then someone replied in the forum saying that 500 IU's of HCG is enough every 4 days, but thats 900% less than what the article says, which is at 5000IUs.

you see, it seems to me that its like a mix and match thing, you'd never know which is good with what, and at what dosages unless you're scientifically smart with these things or have gone through these through experience. or have a doctor guiding you through. thats why its very hard for newbies like me who's just in awe with the great detail of facts thats handed down, but wants to be responsible enough to know the science of it. but theres always room for learning, thats why i hope someone would get back with me on this, ty.

and also, i read NTG's post on Training while on gear. he said an "every-other-day" workout schedule would be more beneficial for any BBer WHILE ON GEAR. plus, he didn't mention anything about cardio. does this apply generally to all kinds of cycle stack? i always thought it was 6-7 times a week while taking gear. i mean, with the strength it gives you and you dont wanna waste the intake. im looking more into the ff:

weeks 1-9 Sustanon 500mg/wk
weeks 1-8 Deca 300mg/wk
weels 1-6 Dianabol 30mg/day

wouldnt a 6 days - 7 days a week workout of compound and supersets work well for this kind of load? i want to gain more muscle before any cutting, so i really want to stick with susta and deca. i've also read about T-bol and says that there are less side effects yet also less gains WHEN COMPARED to dianabol, my question is could i use t-bol instead of dianabol in my proposed cycle? i can see the PRO's of it but not the con's, if any.

i'd appreciate if you guys could reply, im learning alot. thanks!