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Topic starter
02/09/2018 7:07 am
Clenbuterol and cortisol blocking Hi all,
From time to time I come accross statements that clenbuterol during or right after your PCT helps keeping your gains because it 'blocks' cortisol in some way.
Although it sounds nice, nobody is able to back it up with valid arguments however.
So I was wondering if somebody can prove that statement or proof that it actually is some old bodybuilding myth.
From what I've read I'm not sure. As you can read here it actually has some muscle sparing actions.
quote:
Beta adrenergic agonists, either synthetic such as clenbuterol or Albuterol, or naturally occurring epinephrine and norepinephrine also elevate cAMP and suppress calcium mediated protein breakdown.
Ephedrine elevates cAMP directly by binding to beta receptors, and indirectly by increasing levels of the body's naturally occurring hormone/neurotransmitter norepinephrine.
Newly published research also shows that clenbuterol, besides inhibiting calcium dependent proteolysis, also acts to block ATP-ubiquitin mediated protein breakdown.
But in most other articles clen is more described as being catabolic and should be used when cutting, not to help maintain muscle mass.
So who can help me giving me an answer whether or not clen can be used to spare muscle mass after a cycle by blocking Cortisol?
Tnx!
J.
02/09/2018 7:49 am
given clen's potential effect on the heart muscle, it is a moot point imo.
jb
02/09/2018 8:30 am
no, its pretty much a myth. Like you stated, some evidence of involvement in inhibition of ubiquitin-proteasome pathways, downstream of the GR, similar to any beta-adrenergic agent, but no link to actual blocking of the GR or of glucocorticoid activity per se.
There is some level of anti-catabolism as a result of this interaction, and that is why beta-adrenergic agents generally tend to spare more muscle mass than other fat loss agents.
If you want to spare muscle mass after a cycle, you'll need to eliminate confounding factors that will lead to muscle loss, the most prominent being loss of appetite. Using a combination of forskolin and yohimbine in a decent dose will yield the same result, but will increase instead of decrease appetite.
Good things come to those who weight.
The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.
Topic starter
02/09/2018 9:07 am
Ok, thanks guys!
Topic starter
02/09/2018 9:46 am
I found this study that might be usefull for this topic, but I am not sure if they look only at the secretion of Cortisol or at the total Cortisol levels.
Let me know what you think.
quote:
Influence of clenbuterol, a beta-adrenergic agonist, on desipramine induced growth hormone, prolactin and cortisol stimulation.
Laakmann G, Munz T, Hinz A, Voderholzer U.
Psychiatric Hospital, University of Munich, Germany.
We report herein the effects of the beta-adrenergic agonist clenbuterol on desipramine (DMI)-induced growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL) and cortisol secretion in healthy male subjects. In the first study, nine subjects were treated with either clenbuterol (0.04 mg, p.o.) or placebo. In the second study, 12 subjects received either DMI (50 mg, i.v.) alone or in combination with clenbuterol (0.04 mg, p.o.) given 60 min prior to DMI administration. clenbuterol alone had no influence on GH, PRL, or cortisol concentrations, compared to placebo. DMI alone caused GH stimulation (mean maximum = 15.7 +/- 3.4 ng/ml), which was significantly lower after combined administration of DMI and clenbuterol (mean maximum = 7.7 +/- 1.6 ng/ml) (p less than or equal to 0.01). DMI-induced PRL and cortisol stimulation was not influenced by clenbuterol pretreatment. These results indicate the inhibiting influence of noradrenergic beta-receptors on GH stimulation.
02/09/2018 10:31 am
If it had an effect on adrenal cortisol secretion, cort levels would have gone down, and if it had an effect on GR binding, cortisol levels in plasma should have gone up.
I do remember reading that beta-adrenergic and dopaminergic drugs have a depressing effect on adrenal DHEA secretion. Which is of course largely irrelevant here.
Good things come to those who weight.
The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.
02/09/2018 12:14 pm
That is correct. at least not on cortisol production or binding.
Good things come to those who weight.
The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.