shoulder width? like i mean fucking wide!

For developing the frame, super wide grip chins, wide grip deadlifts with the old "lipped" plates where u grap the plates and dead. For packing on the size, heavy barbell rows, T-Bar rows, chins, behind the neck press and side laterals. The purpose of the above is 2 fold. One, the wider your scapula are spaced on your back, the wider your shoulders are. Two, the bigger your lat spread, the wider your shoulders are. Creating a large shoulder width, is alot less dependant on delt size then lat size.

Shoulder presses to the front. When you can lift bodyweight for reps you'll be stronger than 99% of gym goers out there...

Those old wide grip deads are called 'Reeves' deadlifts. You need theold style 45's to do them correctly. Super set them with ultra wide grip chins. Follow your delt workout up with Chins to. Don Howorth used to swear by that combo.

Originally posted by littlewilly Those old wide grip deads are called 'Reeves' deadlifts. You need theold style 45's to do them correctly. Admin should give u the title "Arbiter of Useless Knowledge."

I just haven't bought a muscle mag since 1967.........LOL

Originally posted by littlewilly I just haven't bought a muscle mag since 1967.........LOL Ya, but u didnt have to memorize them! Shoulda been focusing on Calculus instead. Too bad u cant get high school credits for being a body building guru.

hey thanks alot you 2 as you guys arenet even the usuals in the aussie forum shows the dedication you have :thumbsup: very much appreciated! ok a couple of questions , doing the chins you mean wide grip palms away right? 2ndly what hits the sides more ...behind the neck or front military? and of that should they come right down to the trap/upper chest or ugh to lower it to the head level ? thansk again to all the others whove posted aswell :thumbsup:

BUMP

Yes palms facing away. Ultra wide chins dont build the lats as much but they strectch the scapula. Shoulder width or slightly wider work the lats better, a combo of the 2 works for me. Hard to say which press hits the side delts more, many people argue that both of them just work the front delt, that is what Arnie always wrote. personally I feel behind the neck hits the side more, but I really dont want to tell Arnie he's wrong...LOL I only lower to around eye or nose level now, any lower and it hurts my shoulders. but I've had a few rotator probs in the past.

Ultra wide grip chins, means holding the chinning bar at the very ends..like the absolute ends of the chinning bar, U do alot of hanging, and stretching, over chinning really...dont try and pound off reps..go for low, slow, easy reps, alot of stretching at the bottom and holding the contraction at the top. Same with the deads. Im also a proponent of rib cage expansion work. stretching out the cartillage betwen your ribs and your sternum, to give u the illusion of having a giant barrel chest. I beleive the bigger your upper torso the beter your lat spread looks and the smaller your waist looks in proportion. Exercises that accomplish this are deep breathing pull overs and high rep, deep breathing squats. The squats are a killer. I did alot of both these types of training when I was 18-21...(the younger the better really)...and I guarentee u it made a HUGE difference to the structure of my physique...without adding a single pound of muscle...

hmm interesting , although im 32 now that may not work for me anymore .....but ill definately start on the suggested exercises you guys have been alot of help and am really glad you replied! cheers fellas

These are definaly old school tips. But they do work. Alot of those old timers built some pretty amazing bodies without much gear or nutrition knowledge. 2 gallons of milk and high rep squats were cutting edge in those days...LOL....But it worked!

Originally posted by littlewilly Those old wide grip deads are called 'Reeves' deadlifts. You need theold style 45's to do them correctly. Super set them with ultra wide grip chins. Follow your delt workout up with Chins to. Don Howorth used to swear by that combo. My giant but short little alligator arms won't reach that far! :biglaugh:

Presses behind the neck wreck your shoulders - they arent designed to go thru that unnatural range of motion! For front presses go below chin level, and at the bottom of the lift make sure your forearms are perpendicular to the floor. When you can lift bodyweight, and if you're still unhappy about your shoulder size which I dont think will be the case, then try some more extreme measures...