Morning cardio before eating or after?

Morning cardio is the best too me. I prefer a 40g protein shake before I Run in the morning, But some cramp off of this!

Definitely before eating. If you insist on eating, make it a fast acting whey protein shake. Your body will burn fat more readily as fuel. If you were to eat a meal, some of that would potentially be used as fuel for your workout.. not to mention that a lot of blood would be diverted to your stomach for digestion.

Guns is right, there is absolutely NO support for this "you will burn muscle" theory that is being touted everywhere. There are tons of studies on substrate utilization concluding that fat is preferentially burned in a fasted state during exercise. I argued this ad infinitum with nelson montana over on elite to no avail.

jb

only and after reviewing a few double blind studies I cannot seem to find (this was 2 years ago) I agree with Guns and boldman (like they needed my support on this). Anyway, the only argument I used to have from guys on the old old old anabolics.com board was that the increased cortisol level from a state of fasting in the a.m. would lead to potential muscle wasting after the remnants of glycogen were depleted.

Also, studies show there is a marked downregulation in IGF-alpha7 lipase when one considers the disturbing postmortem angioplasty in neutered male iguanas...just kidding on this part, I just wanted to rile Jguns up a bit...

At any rate, for the past two weeks I was drinking a fast acting whey protein shake premixed with some dextrose and maltose. This week I switched to the empty stomach theory. In only 4 days I am certain I see a marked difference, though I did also tighten up my diet a bit. With 43 days to go before my cruise, I am in hard core mode trying to cut the fat while building muscle on 500 mg cyp/week, 600 deca/week, and alternating the following in standard cyclical fashion: clen, eca, NYC, and a homemade 20 mg Y-hcl/.25 mg tyramine formula that really jacks me up.

I have found the ycl/tyramine to be very effective taken 20min prior to exercise on an empty stomach. You need to remember as well that to get the full benefit of the yhcl you need to not eat for another 2-3hrs after your cardio as insulin will counteract the effect of the yhcl.

jb

quote:

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Also, studies show there is a marked downregulation in IGF-alpha7 lipase when one considers the disturbing postmortem angioplasty in neutered male iguanas...just kidding on this part, I just wanted to rile Jguns up a bit

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I saw that study and it was flawed.

The Truth,
I started dieting a 2 weeks ago using sprints in the morning,clen and now NYC along with my diet and have lost a marked amount of bf. Good enough to shave my chest and stomach before my vacation tomorrow! And to think, I was bulking a month ago!

Guns: I am in a similar boat bro, but as said I have 43 days until my shirtless days, so I am hoping I can get my bf back to my typical vacation range which is about 8.5%. Not the greatest, but with grad school and a medical internship it is difficult to go super-duper hard core, it is a challenge just to get 6-7 hours of sleep, eat clean, and get my good lift in the p.m. and my cardio in the a.m. I am following a simple diet of 3-4 protein shakes (a.m. post cardio is with flax oil and some carbs, post workout with malto and dextrose) a turkey sandwich and apple for lunch, and a pre-bed caseinate protein shake. Hope that works but if you see any holes, let me know if you have time.

boldman: I am aware of the insulin negating effects on the y-hcl stack, but am worried about muscle-wasting if I wait an extra hour or so after a.m. cardio to drink post-workout shake. So I take it 20 minutes prior to a.m. cardio, then cardio/abs for 1 hour, then home and drink shake. It is all a trade-off, I guess, but man that stuff jacks me up!

Thanks for replies by the way.

My first thought is that you aren't taking in enough protein. Protein actually aids lipolysis and protects against more severe muscle wasting when you are dieting. I think your diet is viable, I just think with some carb manipulation (ALA JGUNS super cutter cycle) you could really get ripped in that time. Otherwise, you will still hit your goals most likely.

Rumpster, I wasn't that hard on you was I?

I'll repost my position from the other board.

In the morning your catabolic hormones cortisol and glucagen are high upon rising, especially after a night long fast. The only thing that can counteract these hormones (well without drugs anyway) is by ingesting food...insulin release inhibits cortisol release and glucogen release. Now...if you go and throw cardio on top of an empty stomach you are just begging for muscle loss. Sure alot of the calories you burn will come from fat, but many will also come from de-amination of muscle tissue...especially since your blood amino levels will be low. Many people try and get into the attitude of doing cardio and trying to burn fat specifically while donig it... this is not really the best way...cardio should be done to create a caloric deficit... not to try and pick one specific tissue source to burn from...the body is too complex you can't get it to burn just fat or just carbohydrates etc...it just doesn't work like that. I used to do cardio in the morning for my pre-contest prep and lost quite a bit of muscle doing it. Then I switch to high intensity cardio with a pre and post cardio meal identical to my workout meals. My diet was the same but I was much more shredded for that contest and I retained more muscle mass.

Yeah, you were. But anyway my take on morning cardio is really more about no carbs before cardio than no protein/EFA's before cardio.

well then I apologize, I was trying to present data or use scientific logic, maybe I sounded arrogant when I was trying to get a point across.

this issue came up at Swole's board and well he said that cardio is best done before you eat anything in the morning. If you guys know him or seen him, you would take his word for it.

Figures don't lie but liars do figure. You can create charts & graphs and studies to support any argument you want. Just because something worked for Tom doesn't make it right for Dick or Harry.

Aw c'mon guys, there is plenty of evidence that fat is preferentially burned when exercising in the fasted state. I have seen NO studies suggesting an increase in the use of muscle tissue when exercising in a fasted state vs post-prandial exercise.

jb