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13/06/2019 6:00 pm
Okay, this is for newbies, coming here for info., let me give you some alternative perspectives here. Yes they are my perspective, and yes, maybe I'm just a dork....but I have found, much to my dismay, that I'm a pretty average guy with pretty typical results and experiences........
1) if you look real closely here, you will see that with the exception of EPO, the real results from taking gear is "hit or miss" - for me anyways, a typical USA cat IV, at a typical weight, doing typical races, I noticed no performance gains at all. I did notice big wattage increases on the trainer, but the extra weight on the bike negated alot of the gains.....I did get bigger guns, and I did get horny all the time, and I did recover quickly - initially, but I did NOT suddenly start winning......and the interesting thing is, that my "energizer bunny" side-effects of increased testosteron started to wear off....
2) IMHO, its a waste to be taking "endurance dossages"...why risk going to prison for a dosage that is going to have little to no effect on performance? Testosterone seems to be the only thing that really works anyways......but at less then 250mg your just replacing what you already got (unless your deficient). I mean, if you wanna recover, drink a protein drink right after working out.......that works too.....
3) Since "endurance dossages" are a waste, you gotta take at least 250mg per week of test. but if you do be prepared to have to really watch your diet and really be careful about bloat......as a Cat IV/masters - half the reason I got into bike racing was so I didnt have to count every *#(#% calorie.....
3) if you take winny at effective dossages, chances are your knees are gonna hurt. If you take Dbol at effective dossages your gonna suck aerobically. if you take Tbol at effective dossages, chances are your gonna have to watch out for killer headaches, oh and chances are your HR will increase and make all your HR training zones whacked......
Now I have the added pleasure of an injury....seems my strength outpaced my fitness in a timetrial and I'm paying the price......I remember smuggly reading one of the anti-steroid internet articles about injuries because of muscles vs. tendons, or some bologny like that, and I have to wonder.......
So what have I come away with from my year of experimentation? One, a new found knowledge that the anti-steroid hysteria is exactly that, hysteria. Two, the public's perception that steroids are going to make you superman is wrong. You will gain muscle mass, but muscle mass doesnt mean increased performance, otherwise we'd all be bodybuilders. I mean, how many really massive pursuiters and/or road racers have you seen? And if your a Cat III on down, get a life, your Not a sprint specialist no matter how hard you wish you were....Three, its cool to aspire to being a track sprinter, but in reality it kinda sucks....I mean, your gonna suck in timetrialing, road racing, and weekend mountain/hill rides....all that for 1 or 2 measly track meets, that really dont matter in the grand scheme of things anyways.....
Damn, maybe I burned myself out, thinking testosterone would let me overtrain consistently for a long period of time........I sure am being negative.....Okay, so your probably thinking I'm a looser, and your a "real" bike racer with "real" knowledge.....thats cool, but if your just the average Joe Blow racer, realize that the gear isnt all its cracked up to be......
Here's the plan next year ( a little more informed I believe)......do testosterone from November to January when hitting the gym hard.....then simply try to maintain the gains naturally.....and if I start to feel beat in late summer next year maybe do a 150mg testosterone cycle to pick myself up. But the idea of taking testosterone in the spring for on bike training is out. I mean testosterone is good for building mass and its good for "general well being"...but its benefits on performance arent all that.
Finally, to you clomid naysayers, I dropped about 10 pounds when I took Clomid, but physically I feel like crap.....is that the Clomid, decrease in gear, overtraining? Who knows.....all I know is that I'm going through a severe midlife crisis....I've discovered the secret to 30/40 year old gym guys with big muscles....hmm, I've always wanted big muscles....but damn, bike racing is lots of fun, and big muscles just slow you down...
lol, you get the picture.....
Flame away, but I believe I'm speaking truth for about 80% of steroid experimenters (steroid users with the purpose of increased performance rather then increase mass that is).....
13/06/2019 6:24 pm
I must say, nicey put my friend.
PS. Clomid makes me shoot huge loads but, cry like a sissy all the time - LOL!
13/06/2019 6:47 pm
hehehe I'm a track sprinter...taking gear helped a lot.
Funny thing is it only worked well after 3 months or so, when I was already off.
I agree increased msucles dont work, esp for roadies. But I'm surrpised 150mg enan didnt work for you.
dno what to say...lol
13/06/2019 7:13 pm
zircon, can you go into more detail about this?
Topic starter
13/06/2019 7:29 pm
Okay, I was a little bummed last night when I wrote that little tirade......I am at the point where I cant even bike at a really slow easy gear without leg pain. Its actually a tirade against my experimentation and my training plan this year.....
I'm on 125mg of test now starting last week. I tried a couple months ago, but decided to just do a low dosage of Clomid at the same time to combat the bloat. It worked, I lost some weight, but now I feel like crap.....I have about 4 weeks worth of test left @ 125mg a week, so I'll see how I feel in 4 weeks. But I have to admit, I feel a little silly sticking a needle in my arm for such a small amount.......
My body seems to have some circadian rythm I haven't figured out yet...some days/weeks I feel like I could win the TDF, other weeks I feel like I'm lucky to complete my workouts. Gear did nothing to "fix" that, still got it.
To be fair to gear, it might be my training schedule. I'm doing heavy preparation for kilos....but physically, my body might not be ready for that type of training as a cat IV. That's my hunch, that gear allowed me to pursue that type of training longer this year before my body rebelled....
So, again, just for wannabe's googling web sites: lessons learned
1) its training, not gear, not equipment, its training
2) cant make a silk purse out of cow's ear, if your below a cat II ya aint gonna be a sprint/kilo specialist, its a noble goal, but dont overdo it at the expense of other stuff, after all, how many opportunities do you have to do a kilo.....and to think of all the beautiful summer group rides I missed this year to sit in my basement with my power meter doing short intervals......
3) oral steroids are a waste, if you have to try it, do test.
4) you probably aren't going to see jack s** if you do a lower dosage, if you do the minimal effective dosage, chances are your on bike gains (on the road not track) are going to be minimal unless you really watch your diet and combat bloat.
5) I suspect Miggy and guys like him, would do well regardless of if they took gear or not.....
6) you will gain muscle from test. you will look like a bad ass trackie, but like my wife says "its all fake".....my coach told me I looked like a stuffed sausage in my skinsuit
7) your committing a felony in the usa....easy to forget that...but its akin to smoking pot or doing heroin in the public's eye (not saying thats fair or correct - but thats how they see it).
8) If you decide to do gear, be prepared to see varied results from what other people report, you might experience exactly what they experienced, you might experience nothing, you might get other side effects. At 50mg of TBOL daily I ended up in the emergency room with the worse headache I ever had and uncontrollable vomiting....At 20mg daily I got decent gains (err, I think I did, couldnt really tell - get the picture?). At 20mg of winny I felt nothing, at 40mg my joints felt like an old geezer's, oh wait a minute, I'm a masters racer, I am an old geezer......
9) if you do a kilo specific type of training, and if you accept the gear's extra weight, be prepared to be blown away by how much slower you are......last year I was *really* close to coming in under an hour for a 40K TT, this year I'm right back to where I was when I was a fat-ass...I got sprint, I saw that in some races, but I aint got shit for endurance.....
I've wasted enough bandwidth. But chances are, I'll be back in my basement, shooting up weekly, torturing myself daily for a stupid ass race that lasts for a second and some change (and paying someone monthly to plan my torture sessions for me ).......a race I have no hopes of ever being first in......I should of bought a sports car or Harley instead....
13/06/2019 7:51 pm
Pista
I sort of agree with you as I didn't see practically any gains with 200 gms/week of test enan. No increased performance, sex drive, weight gain, recovery etc... So I am rethinking my strategy for next AS cycle. I have won a few races this year but I have also won them in the past without AS.
As Wheelies say, "AS won't turn a cat 4 into a cat 1 rider".
And also... even the Clomid and nolva I took for PCT didn't seem to have any effect either!! (yeah, I know this is contrary to my rcent post of "PCT Blues" but that was just "trying" to be funny).
13/06/2019 8:08 pm
Pista
I sort of agree with you as I didn't see practically any gains with 200 gms/week of test enan. No increased performance, sex drive, weight gain, recovery etc... So I am rethinking my strategy for next AS cycle. I have won a few races this year but I have also won them in the past without AS.As Wheelies say, "AS won't turn a cat 4 into a cat 1 rider".
And also... even the Clomid and Nolva I took for PCT didn't seem to have any effect either!! (yeah, I know this is contrary to my rcent post of "PCT Blues" but that was just "trying" to be funny).
Bro,
After today, I need to change my pithy saying to,"steroids won't turn a Cat 4 into Floyd Landis"!!!!!!!!
W.
13/06/2019 8:33 pm
AS is only part of the
Okay, I was a little bummed last night when I wrote that little tirade......I am at the point where I cant even bike at a really slow easy gear without leg pain. Its actually a tirade against my experimentation and my training plan this year.....I'm on 125mg of test now starting last week. I tried a couple months ago, but decided to just do a low dosage of Clomid at the same time to combat the bloat. It worked, I lost some weight, but now I feel like crap.....I have about 4 weeks worth of test left @ 125mg a week, so I'll see how I feel in 4 weeks. But I have to admit, I feel a little silly sticking a needle in my arm for such a small amount.......
My body seems to have some circadian rythm I haven't figured out yet...some days/weeks I feel like I could win the TDF, other weeks I feel like I'm lucky to complete my workouts. Gear did nothing to "fix" that, still got it.
To be fair to gear, it might be my training schedule. I'm doing heavy preparation for kilos....but physically, my body might not be ready for that type of training as a cat IV. That's my hunch, that gear allowed me to pursue that type of training longer this year before my body rebelled....
So, again, just for wannabe's googling web sites: lessons learned
1) its training, not gear, not equipment, its training
2) cant make a silk purse out of cow's ear, if your below a cat II ya aint gonna be a sprint/kilo specialist, its a noble goal, but dont overdo it at the expense of other stuff, after all, how many opportunities do you have to do a kilo.....and to think of all the beautiful summer group rides I missed this year to sit in my basement with my power meter doing short intervals......
3) oral steroids are a waste, if you have to try it, do test.
4) you probably aren't going to see jack s** if you do a lower dosage, if you do the minimal effective dosage, chances are your on bike gains (on the road not track) are going to be minimal unless you really watch your diet and combat bloat.
5) I suspect Miggy and guys like him, would do well regardless of if they took gear or not.....
6) you will gain muscle from test. you will look like a bad ass trackie, but like my wife says "its all fake".....my coach told me I looked like a stuffed sausage in my skinsuit
7) your committing a felony in the usa....easy to forget that...but its akin to smoking pot or doing heroin in the public's eye (not saying thats fair or correct - but thats how they see it).
8) If you decide to do gear, be prepared to see varied results from what other people report, you might experience exactly what they experienced, you might experience nothing, you might get other side effects. At 50mg of TBOL daily I ended up in the emergency room with the worse headache I ever had and uncontrollable vomiting....At 20mg daily I got decent gains (err, I think I did, couldnt really tell - get the picture?). At 20mg of winny I felt nothing, at 40mg my joints felt like an old geezer's, oh wait a minute, I'm a masters racer, I am an old geezer......
9) if you do a kilo specific type of training, and if you accept the gear's extra weight, be prepared to be blown away by how much slower you are......last year I was *really* close to coming in under an hour for a 40K TT, this year I'm right back to where I was when I was a fat-ass...I got sprint, I saw that in some races, but I aint got shit for endurance.....I've wasted enough bandwidth. But chances are, I'll be back in my basement, shooting up weekly, torturing myself daily for a stupid ass race that lasts for a second and some change (and paying someone monthly to plan my torture sessions for me ).......a race I have no hopes of ever being first in......I should of bought a sports car or Harley instead....
formula!
I'm having my best season this year and can honestly say that AS contributed in a small but noticeable way. It could be that I'm training SMARTER and HARDER but at 40+ years old, my endurance and recovery is much, much better. My diet is also much cleaner (but not to extreme) than in past years. I do splurge on tastey foods but I ALWAYS work harder/longer at the next training session to justify the extra calories.
Cycling is all about power to weight ratio and a "stuffed sausage" (your words, not mine) is not gonna have a very good ratio!!! I don't know what you weigh but from your description, maybe that's the problem. I'm not trying to flame you but to give (in my awkward way) constructive criticism.
Another thing, I believe that endurance athlete cycles should be much longer than the six, eight, or ten weeks that body builders cycle. Sure they can gain 15 lbs in ten weeks but how much of that is water and fat and how much is permanent? I believe that at a reasonbly low endurance dose (150-250mg) of testosterone will take longer to provide increased strength/power in the legs. All this is anedotal from my experience but I got crazy strong during weeks 11-14. Sure I felt stronger after four weeks on but it's nothing like what I felt during weeks 11-14. Again, all this could be because of the heavy duty time I put on the bike but I doubt it. I have one more week of racing and then it's leisurely riding for the rest of the year with maybe a mountain bike race and a couple of century rides with friends. I'm officially on pct as of today.
NOW, Is this the best Tour De France in eight years or what?????
W.
13/06/2019 8:56 pm
zircon, can you go into more detail about this?
If I remember correctly, Zircon races his bike on a track. He's not a runner like you. I could be wrong though.
13/06/2019 9:18 pm
Yeh track racing....but my exp with AAS was a bit diff than most.
I did 2 weekers with tren prop and once added in tbol...it was good on cycle but I noticed the water gain did hamper my speed etc while on
what worked well is I would do gym and cyclign etc but really focus on power stuff. During the 2 weeks on my power and strength would ramp up gradually (although tren was insane in 2 weeks i went from 100 to 120 bench for 5 reps easy on tren 50mg eod, with prop and tbol tho - but tren made the diff i think)
Then after cycle I would take 12-14 days Clomid or nolva, didn't feel like my hpta was in any way affected, in fact I felt great. I've gheard before your test can rebound even more afetr a short cycle, not sure how true it is.
Anyway so afetr the 2 weeker the water woudl drop off (say 2kg or ), and my strength would hold...then I'd just be flying lol.
Infortunately I had many personall interruptions so I stoped training well a while ago...and my strength and weight has dropped considerably.
Used to be 79 kg 9% now 75 kg 12-13% lol...hardly traning - but it will have to wait for end of the year when I can quit work for good and do full time training.
In future I'll only do 2-4 weeekers prop tho...for test purposes. I usually run 125-150mg prop eod which is high for you guys. Have considered 250mg a week for 8 weeks. Still thinkin about it.
13/06/2019 9:46 pm
I am having a terrible year. I have only raced a handful of times. Most due to a few badly times Flu's, but I am still hitting the gear(expiration date purposes) and I am now coming to a point that is without doubt the best forum I have hit in my life.
I do the following dosages-
400mg per of EQ
200mg of Trenabol
200mg of Masteron
200mg of Test. Prop.
Off only the EQ back in the beghinning of the year my HCT went from 42's% to the very high 49's%-50% area. So from a standpoint of Erythroposis this alone rocks. I measured my HCT on a zipo.
I hit the EPO back in April and this put the HCT way high mid 50's but I got injured and ill and 6 weeks past before I knew what had happened. Still had a few good rides and one excellent race. By mid June I was starting to go nice but at one of my main goal events I flatted with just under 10K to go just as a break was being pulled back. It wasn't hard to read and I knew the counter was going to fly right on contact and as I was moving trying to find a solid wheel to follow. boom back tire blows. The move went and I missed out.
I am just trying to say the even basic careful dosages can help performance. You have to remember your still going to have to go out there and fight for wheels, think out tactics etc.. etc.. You can have all the fitness in the world and talent, but if you can't read whats happening and figure out at the exact time whats going on you'll never win a bikerace no matter how much PED's you pump into your system. Thinking is a big part of this Sport and unfortunitely PED's don't figure out the WHAT and HOW for us.
Topic starter
13/06/2019 10:11 pm
Sorry for my ignorance, whats a PED?
13/06/2019 10:41 pm
performance enhancing drugs.
13/06/2019 11:06 pm
Interesting topic and some good reading... OK, so PED's are not going to make a Cat 4/5 rider into a Pro... But at the Pro level I guess they're enough to make a Pro into a winning / higher placing Pro because the % difference in the guys at the top level is probably so small that little gains can make a big difference.
13/06/2019 11:27 pm
Interesting topic and some good reading... OK, so PED's are not going to make a Cat 4/5 rider into a Pro... But at the Pro level I guess they're enough to make a Pro into a winning / higher placing Pro because the % difference in the guys at the top level is probably so small that little gains can make a big difference.
I definitely agree!!
Having said that, I think cycling is a more complicated sport than the general public realize. It's not always the STRONGEST THAT WINS. Many, many times it is the SMARTEST/MOST TACTICALLY SAVY guy that wins.
Another thing......I'm guessing that there is a lot more doping at the Pro level than the SPORT would want to admit! I would further stick my neck out and say that the playing field is pretty level at the Pro ranks and that without PEDs.......the results of the 2006 Tour De France WOULD be similar.
That's just my opinion.
W.